To wonder how people will financially survive?

[Cupcakeicecream]

To think that many people are struggling already. Food price rises, gas and electric costs. The general cost of living due to inflation from either brexit since the pandemic and Ukraine war. But come on some people were struggling before any of those factors. Financially people will be pushed to breaking christmas will be off the cards general life will stagnate no meals out leisure activities cinema socialising new clothes treat foods. The threat of blackouts and wondering how we will pay bills to keep warm or keep a house running. Never mind buying food the price of it plus the large gaps on shelves. Winter will be miserable. It's becoming impossible to live in this country.

I have been away from my home for 5 days and my pre-payment metre has used £10 of electric :(

The only things left on where the TV extension plugs (should have turned off) and my fridge.

£10 in 5 days without me cooking or showering or watching TV or charging my phone or boiling a kettle using the toaster...

@anniegun please can you help me understand your thinking in terms of:

• how do you define"properly wealthy"?

-why would you exclude the top 1%? Why not 5%/10%/17%/35.6%... you get my point? It's an arbitrary line that you've drawn. Why not either include all or exclude all? Surely that is fair and equal. -why would you tax companies so heavily that they'd likely pull out of the market? What would we do then? -how would you define "astronomical profits"? What level do profits become "astronomical"? -were you so keen for the public purse to intervene when energy companies were making astronomical losses? I suspect not btw -why would you take energy companies in-house knowing there's a lot of investment -that the government doesn't have- needed to modernise them? -why would you want to apply treacle-esque heavily unionised public sector approaches to energy production? What would you do when they all go on strike? Would we just wait a while till our lights came back on? -do you realise a lot of energy producers are overseas and / or global corporations? Ie not easily nationalised... -how would you value companies you want to nationalise? Would the public purse be able to afford to purchase companies that are presently generating "astronomical profits"?

I don’t think anyone who isn’t properly wealthy should have to deal with these levels of household fuel increases. They should assist everyone with the exception of the top 1%. They such then put a heavily tax the astronomical profits of the energy producers and put that money back into the public purse as an interim measure to re-nationalisation. Essential services should not be run for profit otherwise situations like this are almost inevitable.

Democracy disagrees with you. This is almost the exact initiative Labour put forwards back in 2019 before being soundly told to go fuck themselves by an electorate that couldn't get enough of Boris and the Boys.

@Teand that's a lot and doesn't feel quite right, it might be worth investigating your meter and / or what's using energy further (perhaps the other devises using energy and / or your fridge has an issue - or is very old - causing it to draw down a lot of energy) as you're likely over paying.

By comparison and incase helpful, recently my electricity spend on a typical day (two working from home using laptops and DSE, washing machine - but no tumble dryer, dishwasher, sky/tv used approx 1 hour a day else on standby) is approx £1.80 so yours feels very high in comparison.

@Teand Do you have an American style fridge freezer?

I have and just had a smart meter fitted & I'm sure it's using quite a bit.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.

2) people re-frame how they view a minimum wage to a wage is does almost what it says on the tin: ie provides the minimum and thus is not a steady long term option that covers luxuries such as holidays, home ownership, kids etc (given these aren't minimums). Again for clarity, if not saying "people don't deserve these, of course they do, just that if they want them then they (or whatever financial system they operate e.g. with a partner) will have to bring in more than the minimum (by definition...)

But in this system, there are still ways going to be those who cannot bring in more than the minimum, and if the minimum is not enough to support themselves financially, then screw them? I hate this idea that you just have to "make more money" when that isn't possible for many people.

that's a lot and doesn't feel quite right, it might be worth investigating your meter and / or what's using energy further (perhaps the other devises using energy and / or your fridge has an issue - or is very old - causing it to draw down a lot of energy) as you're likely over paying.

Do you have an American style fridge freezer?

I have an under-counter fridge with one shelf of a freezer.

However, now you've mentioned it and I've remembered... The freezer door is actually broken so it doesn't fully shut the shelf up, it ices up very heavily and easily so I'm always having to get ice out. Could that be it? The freezer is in like overdrive?

I've lived with this fridge/freezer for so long as I can't afford to replace it, I forget it's actually got a broken freezer door.

Why would some people* not be able to bring in the minimum needed? Can you share some examples please? Don't forget, it's not just about earning more, it's about re-evaluating the minimum with an acceptance that it doesn't need to be a static situation: someone earning the minimum now (for whatever reason) doesn't always have to.

I genuinely believe we need to have more faith in what people can actually achieve: humans are incredibly creative and have proven ourselves to generally always rise to the challenge!

We shouldn't write people of as "not being good enough to earn enough to provide for themselves" (which is effectively what you've said) - that's fundamentally immoral in my opinion.

Disabilities aside, which should be protected and afforded more protection and support than at present.

That might be it, it'll constantly be working to cool itself (and the rest of the kitchen & beyond!) down unfortunately :(

Might be worth doing what you can to get it replaced if that's possible or worse case, creating a best a seal around it as possible as a temporary fix

This might be it.

I know three things that make a fridge or freezer run inefficiently:

Not being full.
Seal broken.
It may need cleaning at the back.

We shouldn't write people of as "not being good enough to earn enough to provide for themselves" (which is effectively what you've said) - that's fundamentally immoral in my opinion.

Well, maybe I'm not understanding you, but there are people now who cannot afford their rent or bills without being on welfare such as Universal Credit, I don't understand why that would be any different by what you are suggesting?

So the solution is just earn more?
And if you can not you are just not trying hard enough?

Good to see more and more people are getting it ...

There's two sides to any coin... income and outgoings. You're only considering one...

Because life is not as simple as that.

Don’t get me started on democracy. It is entirely incompatible with the (medieval) system of monarchy, do we don’t have a genuine version of that. Also, a large percentage of the electorate works hard, plays hard and has little interest in politics. When they decide how to vote, their decision is based on what they are fed by the Daily Mail, the Express and the Sun - all owned by members of the establishment who are also Tory donors. Also, our voting system means that a party doesn’t need the majority of the electorate to gain power. In fact only 43.6% of the British electorate voted Tory in 2019. Nationalising essential services is hardly full on socialism. We don’t want the NHS to go and our health services run for profit, as they are in the US (where ordinary people are frequently made bankrupt by healthcare bills). This is the same principle. The prices people pay for water and heating should not be hugely elevated to provide £ billions in profits and share holder dividends. People struggling to get by have no choice but to ‘buy’ those services.

A good old Tory ‘meritocracy’ argument. Convenient for those who are doing well on only interested in themselves and those like them isn’t it?

Don’t get me started on democracy. It is entirely incompatible with the (medieval) system of monarchy, do we don’t have a genuine version of that.

Do you want to know the funniest thing ?

It's a lot easier to get people to admit we don't have a democracy when you state that we have, than it is to get people to agree with you when you say that we don't.

Funny old world, innit ?

A good old Tory ‘meritocracy’ argument

So if a fair system in with you get out what you put in isn't one you'd recommend, what type of system would you advocate for...?

Everyone seems to want equality but not when it comes to putting in (responsibilities), only ( and maybe not even, given how some are willing to exclude others from "help") taking out...

That over-simplistic model doesn’t take account of the lack of a level playing field. Some people and physical, learning or mental disabilities that hold them back. Some grow-up with psycho-social, or even just social problems that get in the way of learning and obtaining a decent education. Some people are not as intelligent as others, so lack the ability to obtain a profession or start their own businesses. A meritocracy (and by the sound of it you) hold that those who don’t achieve a good standard of living are simply feckless and lazy. I actually find your posts offensive, but it seems you are enjoying being provocative.

I would willingly pay more tax to allow mothers of preschool children to remain at home with them , and would extend this to support term-time only work. I was fortunate to be able to give up work whilst my two youngest were little, but returned to my career when my next two were tiny-I regret this.

Wow who decides peoples jobs apparent aren't worth a proper wage just pittance?

You have a shit job don't expect to be able to pay rhe bills afford to feed yourself forget living in a house having gas and electric.

Exactly. The good old MN middle class are out in force on this thread. Incidentally, I had a friend who worked in finance in a factory making cardboard boxes. They paid their factory staff quite well, as it was such a boring job and they knew no-one would stay for low pay rates, so not everyone decides a job isn't worth a decent pay rate.

@AnnieSnap

A meritocracy (and by the sound of it you) hold that those who don’t achieve a good standard of living are simply feckless and lazy

I've never said this - my view is one of having faith in people and doing the right thing for oneself and others which involves fulfilling your responsibilities, working hard and developing yourself and being rewarded for doing so, making prudent life decisions, and caring for those less able to look after themselves (ie as I've often said, we should provide more support to those that need it e.g the disabled).

Do I believe some are feckless and lazy? Yes of course I do - I'm sure you would too if you'd be honest with yourself and others and admit it. (Of course, it's peoples right to be feckless and lazy, we've all free will after all, but others should have to foot that tab).

Do I believe some make poor decisions without thinking of the consequences and expecting others to pickup the tab? Yes also, again I believe you'd agree if you were only honest with yourself, unless you love in a Halcyon world where everyone is perfect .

Do I believe some people who make good decisions can also and do also make poor decisions? Yes, that's life, no-ones perfect, and certainly not all the time.

So whilst I don't agree it necessarily holds that those that don't achieve are feckless and lazy (your words), I do believe it follows people should be accountable for their own lives and life outcomes (and that doesn't detract from my belief we should be a caring and supportive society - they're not mutually exclusive but instead, I believe, are much more powerful in unison).

Regarding finding my posts offensive that's your right to do so (even if I do find it rather woke) but I'll make no apology for sharing my view and engaging in discussion with others of a different opinion in service of either learning from them (and amending my view) or vice versa - that's the basis of a good democracy after all. Just because some topics are emotive (and it's worth pausing to consider why) doesn't mean they should be off limit (and that you should want to live in a bubble or echo chamber where you only hear similar "inoffensive" views).

*shouldn't have to pick up the tab

I agree, I'd happy pay more for that reason also but I can see and understand why others wouldn't want to: Having children is a personal choice so I can understand my others who choose not to do so (or choose only to limit how many that have) may not want to fund others in making that personal choice.