Asking for advice on private school

[loonnie]

My DD is not school age yet, but soon we will need to start applying and I'm not sure where to start really.

Ideally I would like her to go to a private school.

For state schools, there is ofsted. There is also some kind of body for private schools I think. Basically how can I find out if a private school I am looking for is actually good or not ? Is the independent school body that rates private schools to be trusted ?

There are some outstanding state primaries in my area, so I am not against potentially sending her there. I'm trying to compare these to the private schools in the area.

I went to private secondary school and state primary. I had no issues as I was bright when I was in primary school and as a toddler. Not so much later on, but that's another topic haha.

My DD is average for her age in terms of development at the moment. I want her to have the best chance to have a good start at school with a lot of support and attentive teachers. Would it be safest to send her to a private primary ? Or can an outstanding state primary also provide this ?

I'm not anti state schools in any way. I'm just trying to potentially give my child the best start in whichever way I can. I'm just starting my research, so totally clueless, as you can tell.

Many thanks and really not meaning to offend anyone with this post.

I can only answer to your first question - the equivalent of Ofsted is the ISI, Independent Schools Inspectorate and yes, they can be trusted.

There are so many variables especially the area you live in. Ther is no substitute for visiting and observing a school in action. And of course taking your own child’s personality and ability into consideration.

Each and every school will have a statement about their ethos which is largely rubbish. Outstanding schools have frequently not been inspected for a long time and may not be as outstanding as they once were.

If you’re sure it’s the right choice, go for it.
we recently hired a senior ish position, 2 candidates pretty much equal on skills/experience so we chose the state educated candidate, assuming that they had a tougher route to get to where they are than the private educated/ Oxbridge one.
we need resilient, hardworking, creative, staff

So a privately educated person isn't going to be resilient or hard working. Sounds like you have a great hiring process there...

I know! Will no one think of the poor rich kids????

we had to choose some way, and the posh one’s demeanour and general air of over confidence ( something posh schools excel at equipping even the most mediocre of students with) put us off.

Personally, I wouldn’t bother with a private primary school. A good local primary school will provide your child with an excellent start and will provide more opportunities for socialisation because all children will live in the same area.

Once your child is at school you’re likely to find out more about the secondary school options in your area, including the private schools. I find parental feedback has been far more useful in informing my school choices for my kids than ofsted.

Why would it have been a tougher route? I used to work at a state school, that could easily equal an independent one in terms of facilities and opportunities given to the children. The school is in a very affluent area and most parents don't bother with independent schools around there because they don't need to. They've already spent loads of money to be in the catchment area of a very good state option...swimming pool and tennis courts included (both at the state primary and secondary options in the area).
What a ridiculous assumption.

Unless the primary schools in your area are poor performing or your DD has additional needs which you don’t think can be met by a local school, I’d just save up all the money you’d otherwise spend on school fees for ages 4-11 and have it available to your DD as a really decent start on a house deposit for when she’s an adult. Frankly I think it will be of far more benefit.

There are so many variables with independent school quality assessments: are they selective, are they including all children’s academic results or only those of the brightest to make the school look better etc.

I read the Good Schools Guide, the Tatler Guide, spoke to current parents at schools, and asked on here(!) about schools. We looked at both state and independent.

Then we visited, and on the first visit both DH and I immediately got a gut feeling about which one would suit and which ones wouldn't.

So you didn’t choose based on the candidates’ educations in paper. You picked the one with the best personality fit for your organisation/team.

Correlation is not causation.

We do blind recruiting. No interviewers are told anything about what school or university a candidate went to, just their grades. They are re not allowed to ask for specifics about the institutions in the interview.

State primaries are fine. I would really have to have good reasons to go private for primary, like living in a rough part of London where private might be a good idea. What your child learns from state schools is just how the world actually is, the range of jobs people do, the value of money. The academics aren't that relevant, unless you're really keen on a top grammar that's looking for 135+ on the 11+. And plenty of parents will intensely tutor their kids all the way through school, and then get to say they're not advantaged because they went to state school....

Not all kids that go to private school come out the way you're implying like arrogant made in Chelsea types !

I am nothing like that and don't have any friends like that either. My employers never even realised I went to a private school until I mentioned it. They liked me and felt I could do the job and didn't discriminate against me because of a school I went to 20 years ago or whatever !

The Prep School I work at was recently inspected by ISI. It’s stressful on the staff and the inspection lasted 3 full long days. Not sure how long ofsted takes?
All the schools have to have their recent report accessible online, you’ll probably find it on the school website.
Our school got excellent in the end.

As usual - we have an anti private school pile on.

What you actually asked OP - check out the ISI, they're a reliable marker of the quality of the school. They've just reviewed ours and I would describe it as accurate.

Good luck with your choice

‘So you didn’t choose based on the candidates’ educations in paper.’

no, we absolutely did. We decided not to go with Oxbridge, Bedes, etc over staye school, knowing that the State candidate will have had a more rounded life experience.

OP, my son is at a private primary school, just about to go into Year 1.

My husband was privately educated throughout, I was state educated throughout. We both went to Cambridge and now have jobs (in different industries) in which we earn a similar six figure salary. We are both happy with our childhoods and educations.

I would say that if your choice is between good/outstanding state and private, a very important consideration is location. You will be going back and forth to the school twice a day for year upon year, don’t commit yourself to a drive unless you really really have to. Being able to walk to school is a brilliant advantage and you’ll get that with state. A daily drive can really wear you down and I really would say 20 minutes in the car should be the absolute max. A drive that feels manageable when you try it on a weekend with no time pressures is a totally different kettle of fish in the context of a school routine with a recalcitrant 5 year-old. It’s also very bad environmentally of course.

So unless you are planning to move house I would immediately limit your options to private schools that are very close to you. That will make the process easier.

That said, the smaller class size of (usually) 20 rather than 30 is a great advantage. Only you can know how these two weigh up against each other.

Another thing to look at is whether the school offers straight through entry to a good senior school. If you have that then all the stress of doing the 11+ and choosing a secondary melts away. They probably will try to be “academically selective” for Reception but it’s obviously impossible for them to do anything academically rigorous so you just give it a punt and see what happens.

‘Why would it have been a tougher route?’

isnthat a serious question? If it isn’t, if a state school education is just as good as a private one, why to people pay a clean fortune to send their kids private?
and if you don’t think it’s harder for state educated children to get into university, Oxbridge in particular, then there are plenty of statistics that prove otherwise.

If you have a good State Primary consider using that and then Private Secondary. It’s what we did.
The DC had a much more varied experience up until Y7 and had friends from a variety of backgrounds. We also found they were generally more mature and streetwise than their peers who had been to Prep. There was no knowledge gap and they integrated well
Our State Primary WAS good though while the Secondary was dire, that was behind our choice rather than future job prospects or anything else. I wanted the DC to enjoy school and achieve their full potential. I know this IS possible at State Secondary too, but not the one we had available unfortunately

I've put 2 through prep schools and senior schools in the private sector. I'm not sure if I would choose the same path if I had my time over again.
Some points to consider..

How far away is private? Mine was 5 miles away and friends were at a considerable distance and none in my village. I think local friends are good.

Small classes - yes - DC were not left to struggle and they had banded work in classes (unofficial but known by who you sat next to). So even in a class of 13, DD and her pal were given certain work and another 3 levels of work in the rest of the class even in such a small class. I was impressed by the way they were monitored as children were moved due to ability regularly and depending on the topic - it was not simply the same children classed as clever always doing the same work.

After school and before school care was entirely dependable. Even if you missed the 6pm deadline, after about 6.15 you simply paid an hourly rate (it was in the countryside and had students living there who would do this as a matter of course)

Small classes mean a smaller pool for friendships. I recall one poor girl being completely ignored by the other 3 in her class when I saw them around school.

Private had great holiday clubs and had lots of facilities like massive gym, pool etc but they were not cheap.

Excellent music at the particular school and DC went on tours/festivals/competitions from a v young age - youngest played piano to an audience at 5 and certainly from 7 the bands/orchestra were a big commitment.

They were taking exams - like properly invigilated - from age 6. DD2 says looking back that was good preparation for public exams.

So lots of good points but the friends issues can be hard and obviously the cost.

those at ds school who didn’t go to prep did seem to find the transition a little harder as they where not used to so much homework

unless your child just naturally excels in everything it’s tutoring that will get your child into a private high school (that has many applicants) so spend you money on good tutors many are tutored throughout primary at both state and prep (it’s for some odd reason not openly spoken about) and of course if they fit in …. Yes this is important for the ethos of the school no matter how much it’s denied

But that’s not what you said. You said that the private-school educated person’s manner put you off. So their education on paper was not the only factor in your choice.

If you have a very good/outstanding state primary local to you then I would apply there and focus on private (if that’s what you still want) for secondary. It will save you money and also allow your child time to show you whether she is more academic, sporty or arty. Then you can pick a secondary that plays to those strengths.

we had to choose some way, and the posh one’s demeanour and general air of over confidence ( something posh schools excel at equipping even the most mediocre of students with) put us off

Sounds like the privately educated candidate had a lucky escape - though had you hired him/her you could have enjoyed sneering at him for being ‘posh’.

2 DC, both went through private primary, DS is going into Y9 at private secondary, DD is going into Y6 and will join her brother, for secondary. The reason we sent them both to private primary is that it's an all through school (3-18), so although they had to sit the Y7 entrance exam, they were virtually guaranteed a place. Depending on where you live (we're London), competition for places at private secondary is much fiercer. Out of the 60 at DC's primary, c.50 went on to the senior leaving only 70 places for external candidates with about 500 applying. There was also an advantage for us of DC moving up to Senior with their friends from Junior and in a familiar environment/staff. It worked for us and we're very happy with the school and our decision, but it's a very expensive way to do it.

Well, as I said, not everyone is paying a fortune to send their kids private. If parents have the money to buy a house in the catchment area of an excellent state school, does that mean their children have been disadvantaged in their education? They should therefore be given priority and are to be considered more hard-working, resilient and creative?

In the same way as you cannot make such sweeping statements about independent schools and the children going to them, you also cannot just assume that every child who went to a state school has been brought up on the breadline and taken a knife to school to protect themselves from their peers, while being educated in unheated classrooms with broken windows. There is a great variety of both state and independent schools. There is a great variety of family situations and reasons why children might attend one or the other.

So you might get the application stating that the applicant has attended an independent school. A friend of mine did. It's been a great school for her and has helped her to be the confident person she is now. You are telling us that you would have chosen someone else purely based on them having been to a state school. Because they will have had it harder. What it won't tell you on my friend's application is that she's a refugee, that she escaped war when she was six years old, that her mother abandoned her and left her in state care, that she lived in a children's home and then with foster parents, that she had a government funded place at her posh school because that was the school considered best for her. But hey, I'm sure the state school kid with the rich parents and the big house had a much harder life.
If you don't want to employ someone because their face doesn't fit, then that's one thing. If you judge someone purely because of their background on paper, that's poor...really poor. I'm glad I don't work for you.