Demand for minimum wage hike is too high?

[worriedniece]

I just read this article which demands minimum wage be put up to £15 an hour. www.opendemocracy.net/en/labour-silent-minimum-wage-15-pounds-keir-starmer/

I am a little flabbergasted. I worked out that working 52weeks a year on £15 an hour would equate to a salary of 31k Now given that newly qualified teachers earn £25k a year, a junior doctor is on £29k it seems comparably high. It sort of makes me wonder what's the incentive to go and train for a job/go to uni when you can earn nearly as much working in Tesco. I might be being naive, b it surely a minimum is just that- it's a bare minimum and employers should incentivise the best workers by offering more?

£36k

I went to University, also have to pay a bill of £1000k + for nursery, work approx 50hrs a week.

Employers have gotten away with paying ridiculous wages for too long topped up by tax credits from the government. It’s ridiculous that someone working full time has to claim benefits because their wages are deemed not enough to live on. How can that be sustainable for a country?

The assistants at my work are on just over £9 an hour it’s a hard physical job, most are women with children and it suits them as it’s term time only. They make just over £900 a month most either have a second job or UC. They are going on strike soon as they haven’t had a wage rise in 4 years. They were offered 3% when inflation is over 10%.

Why is it always worker wages which apparently must never be raised lest it will "fuel inflation", whereas in just one year, the average salary of a FTSE 100 CEO has jumped by 39% from an already eyewatering £2.5m without a peep from the government or the Bank of England? Why doesn't that fuel inflation too?

Let's face it, no one needs a seven figure salary (what on earth would you even spend that sort of money on?), so perhaps they could reduce their remuneration to a more sensible level in order to provide funds for their employees to have a living wage.

Yep, minimum wage should just be for teenagers who are getting their first taste of the workplace while they still have support from their parents. Anyone old enough to live independently deserves a living wage.

I earn just over minimums, and I work in retail. It's really sad to see the idea perpetuated that "anyone can work at Tesco" and that it's a go-to for people without skills, or people who want an easy job. To be frank that's just perpetuating the way people look down on us as less-than. And you certainly can't just apply for full time work in a supermarket, those roles don't exist. 8h per week is the norm (and you, OP, would probably be unsuccessful, lack of 24/7 flexibility just for a start).

I got rewarded up from 8h to 30h, thanks to absolutely working my tail off and winning awards. That's my reward - no such thing as pay rises. And 40h will never happen. Is there any special reason that you don't think I deserve more than £15k to live on? Did I do something to hurt you? We all need retail workers. We're kind of important.

I don't think you really meant to say minimum wage roles aren't important. But I do think it's a common perception. I do think maybe it's a consequence of the ridiculous "university is king" idea that we all got raised with. Plumbers out-earn both of us, and when we need them they are incredibly important people!🙂

Can I suggest that instead of us all tearing down people who work incredibly hard for a pittance (also, cleaners, bin collectors, care workers) and suggesting that we don't deserve £15 per hour because someone more important doesn't get much more, maybe we could just focus on the whole point. That minimum wage isn't enough to really survive on, especially since they're rarely even full time jobs. Jobs that, just like the dentist and the nurse and the teacher, are actually needed. And that current laws allow employers to laugh all the way to the bank. As do the politicians who love to see the poor blame each other rather than holding ministers accountable.

If this goes through I'm leaving teaching. I'm only hanging on in there because I can't afford to leave. I went be the only one for sure.

Try living off carer’s allowance solely and DLA for child’s care- you’d fight for minimum wage to be higher regardless of how many small/medium or massive businesses fail.
I’m saying so because this country, bein if Tory mind, cannot fathom that business success isn’t everything

@Theimpossiblegirl can I ask why you would consider leaving teaching if this goes through? I’m a teacher and I would fight for a minimum wage hike to £15 an hour. Like I said I work with people getting £9 an hour and it’s horrible listening to them. Yes I’ve been to uni got 2 degrees pay a student loan, do a bit more planning and paperwork my annual salary is 42K which equates to just over £24 an hour. Yes I’m worth that but they are worth a lot more too. It’s not a race to the bottom. They deserve to be able not to be terrified of this price cap that’s coming of feeding their families.

I am no better than the janitor who picks up the litter or the bus driver who brings the kids to school they are all essential workers who deserve a living wage.

It needs to be enough so the likes of Tesco, Amazon and other like companies are not being subsidised by government handouts, the problem with this is the many small companies are not going to be able to afford paying a higher minimum wage and it affects everyone as the teacher upthread states

Sh said she would leve teaching as not being a lento afford to leave is the only thing keeping her.

I would assume that means if the minimum wage was set to £15, she could work in a different role without worrying about the wage drop. I imagine she is championing for the change to go through so she can leave a job she doesn't like.

If the medium salary in the uk is £29k then how the minumum wage be £31k. Only if the medium salary go up too! Then there is no incentive to take up more responsibility at work if you can get £31k just for showing up at work.

Large companies that make loads of profits should be taxed more to cover the state handouts to their low paid workers and I don't just mean Amazon

@eeeeeeeeee totally agree. As someone who works in supermarket why should we not get a living wage? Ive gone from a 16hr contract(these days they give out 8 hours) to 32hr contract(hope to get full time soon but I sometimes do full time anyway). I have suffered anxiety most of my life, so was unable to get qualifications and move up the ladder etc but that makes me scum and I should live on pittance because of the crap I had as a child. Why shouldn't we be offered a living wage?

The solution is simple. On the other thread about a £15 minimum wage, I said that the minimum wage should be about £10, as that would give an annual wage of 60% of the 31K median wage. £10 is about a 10% increase. But we can have a £15 minimum wage, and maintain the current wage structure, all we need to do is give everyone else a 50% increase as well, so the new median wage goes up to just over 46K.

(Of course this is stupid, and will do no-one any good. But it would in theory shut up the people making stupid demands by giving them what they want without actually giving them what they want. I bet there are no economists who think £15 minimum wage is a good idea.)

A lot of people work for small businesses. I agree there should be a measure in place so that huge companies who do make loads of profit aren't shored up by top ups, but the country would be a worse place if the only viable businesses were big business. Many of these provide decent services or add value beyond monetary to places, but they don't bring in tonnes of cash.

Thank you, that's exactly what I meant. I'd love to do another job but just can't afford to leave, especially at the moment. An increase in minimum wage would mean I could do something else.

@eeeeeeeeee I work in a different supermarket. I had a 10 hour contract but regularly expected to work up to 30 hours. Unless the store needed to save money and then I got 10 hours.

So I pushed for a team leader role. Wasn't bothered about the wage increase (20p an hour) but wanted the 28 hours guaranteed.

I work 36 hours every week but they will not increase my contract hours. No one has full time unless you have been there 20+ years and are legacy staff from the previous company.

Husband works nights at Tesco. He was employed 3 nights a week and is now contracted 5 nights a week. Not sure how he managed that 🤣🤣 but he did.

It's hard work and stressful working in a supermarket. Not the easy job people think it is. People are leaving in droves because the contract hours are crap and the pay isn't brilliant.

We rejected our latest pay offer which would have been 30p an hour for everyone. Waiting to see what they offer us next.

Within 5 years the NMW will be fast approaching £15 ph, it went up 41p ph this year/6.6% to £9.50.
The unofficial london living wage is currently £11.05 ph, almost £10ph elsewhere.

The LPC has to reflect inflation, cost of living and wage rises across the economy, so will continue to recommend significant increases.

The problem with the MW is that it has eroded wage differentials, or rather employers inc the Govt seem set on paying us all the NMW... quite a socialist concept lol.

I am no better than the janitor who picks up the litter or the bus driver who brings the kids to school they are all essential workers who deserve a living wage.

That's correct you aren't any better than them, but what you earn isn't an indicator or self worth. I am not any better than anyone else, but after accumulating 5 years of student debt, having a high level of responsibility and applying knowledge and skill that someone at entry level wouldn't have I'm not ashamed to say I deserve higher pay than someone in an entry level job.

The thing is wages above would need to increase and in the public sector they haven't, I work in the CJ system and we're having a nightmare recruiting, admin get paid more to work in retail with less pressure and responsibility, colleagues I work with in other agencies eg probation service practitioners get paid £23k a year to be responsible for domestic abuse perpetrators, non contact sex offenders, parole reports, decisions around recall and release, police officers in my area start on £18k.
So yes minimum wage needs to increase but most of us who work in the public sector are not highly paid fat cats, and there is already a recruitment crisis.

I don't disagree that minimum wage is too low, but here is my real-life example.

I used to be a footwear buyer. We had factories in Portugal. In 2017-2019, the Portuguese government raised the minimum wage, applying to pickers and packers. This meant the wages of the machinists and cobblers had to go up. They were already paying more for their leather because this came from a Poruguese supplier whose wages had increased. So, their cost prices (to us) went up. We could no longer afford their cost prices because Brexit weakened the pound, so we dropped them as a supplier.

It would require an enormous overhaul of the wage structure, rather than just chucking in an extra few pounds an hour at the bottom end.

My argument is that if your business doesn’t bring in enough for you to pay a wage sufficient for your employees to survive on, then you don’t have a viable business. Why should YOU (not aimed at any individual, general question) be taking home huge sums of money, while the tax payer subsides your wages bill/ running costs

Exactly this. If employers pay their employees fairly, take a smaller cut themselves and the taxpayer saves money on tax credits etc, that money can go into public services instead.

we could no longer afford their cost prices because Brexit weakened the pound, so we dropped them as a supplier

I suspect that had much more to do with Brexit than the fact the Portuguese government made provision for staff to be paid fairly.

Small business owners must be terrified. I know our village preschool just couldn’t afford to pay its staff £15 an hour. It would close in months. They can barely afford the latest wage rise as it is with the rise in cost of electricity too.