Aibu to not want a £15 minimum wage?

[Israisingwagesworthit]

This morning I saw a post saying there are calls for a £15 per hour minimum wage.

I understand fully that the current minimum wage doesn't give people enough to survive on and something needs to change to ensure everyone gets a comfortable living wage, and I support this.

However by pushing up the minimum wage doesn't that just add additional costs for businesses, therefore increase costs to consumers removing any benefit of an increased minimum wage in addition to reducing the disposable income and pay gap of anyone above minimum wage.

Surely this only benefits the government with additional income tax?

Is this the best option in a time of potential 18% inflation, would this not increase it further?

Capitalism is the issue, rather than sharing the profit wealth, CEO's (of all levels of business, small and large) keep the profits for themselves and just raise prices when costs go up.

Am i being unreasonable to assume that in order for the £15ph wage to be successful, companies must accept lower profits rather than increasing prices in line with the wage increase otherwise its just pointless and daminging to all wage earners not just the minimum wage.

Won't the government have to threaten windfall taxes to those who increase prices to maintain profits to make it work and to actually benefit minimum wage earners?

I'll admit I'm a middle earner (£40k) civil servant (so no chance of a payrise anytime soon) so would be financially damaged by a raise in minimum wage if nothing is done to stop the subsequently price increases of products after a minimum pay rise. As a result my view may be biased, but am I wrong?

@Heartbreaktuna

Also wages are a relatively small part of the cost structure for large companies.

Tesco's wages costs are £7,466,000. It's profit was £1,693,000. So a pretty small increase in wages across the board of just 23% would plunge it into loss making. Increasing wages by 50% would wipe it out. For many big companies, the wages certainly AREN'T a "relatively small part"!

You were veering off topic by insinuating things that were patently false - suggesting I do not care for the plight of service workers or I think their job isn't tough.

Teaching and nursing are physically demanding too btw and you may not have to ask for permission as such but teachers can't just swan off to the toilet anytime too.

That is not my argument, nor is my arguments teachers are the only special people. The fact is - you cannot compare teaching with all the training it involves (see time and costs required for this) and all the emotional burdens they carry and all the planning/marking they have to do outside of work hours ...and going on residential or day trips etc...with working an entry level/check-out job at a supermarket where you clock in and out and leave your work there.

I assume under this proposal that some TAs would see their wage rise to 15 pounds an hour? While TAs are underpaid, I think teachers would really have to question why they have these significant additional responsibilities and tasks for little more pay than the assistants in their classroom on £15/hour, so you really would have to raise teachers wages too by a significant amount .

Many teachers already work in supermarket jobs actually but my main
point is- NMW workers getting as much as £15 will impact not only teachers but many others who earn a similar amount, unless their wages are increased by a similar amount. The reason for that is landlords will hike up housing costs which is one of the biggest causes of a high standard of living.

So at the end of the day everyone, including NMW workers will still have the same struggle we are facing now.

I think a much more sensible approach would tackle extortionate housing and energy costs.

@Whyareyouasking lol. why on earth would I be jealous of teachers? I earn much more & travel extensively & stay in great hotels, zero responsibility & no work to take home, generous travel package & I have time to study at university into the bargain for pleasure.

I just fully support a £15 min wage & think some teachers come across v entitled & lacking in empathy.
I have worked in many min wage roles in the past & I know many 'professionals'
That wouldn't last 5 mins in those roles.

You take care of yourself pet.

@Badbadbunny I hear what you're saying, but the figure will include staff who are already on more than £15 p.h. and includes the wages of 13 directors. One of which was paid £4.75million alone.
And the supermarket industry works on insanely small margins.

The fact that the product is being sold in the health food shop in the first place rather than a pharmacy is because it's not expected to cause severe adverse effects or drug interactions. I appreciate that does occasionally happen but even then the people that work in the shops are not held responsible.

I'm not arguing that nurses, paramedics etc should be paid more. I am making the point that many would probably leave the job and get a minimum wage one with no responsibility if it paid as well, particularly after being in the profession for a few years.

Tesco's wages costs are £7,466,000.

how much of this wages bill is taken up by the top 5 earners?

CEO earning 224 x higher than the medium worker in £21k which is £9 less than National average

of course the wages bill makes up a large amount of the profit as those at the top are so fucking greedy

👏🏻👏🏻

Just as an aside our local supermarkets all pay more than minimum wage and offer discounts on food. The pension contributions are 4-7% but it looks hard to get a full time role.

No. This isn’t the case. Wage growth mitigates inflation. If people have more money for goods and services, businesses have to compete for that spend.

there will always be some items and services where demand outstrips supply and these things remain at a premium regardless of whether wages increase or not.

if wages increase, inflation is mitigated and reduces. It’s just the way it works.

@Brefugee amen. We need to be looking at it from the other angle- why can't people earning £400 a week get by?? Housing costs, utilities, childcare.

Unless society changes to a Scandinavian model as I mentioned and becomes much higher wages, higher tax but no NI, no council tax, cheap childcare - then just upping the NMW isn't going to be a solution and will result in a lot of business failures . The other thing to note in Denmark is due to high wages a lot of places involving 'personal service' are very poorly staffed. Supermarkets and hospitality in particular.

Yes, the CEO earned 1.1 million pounds this year and that's after taking a pay cut.

Most of the main huge profit companies pay £0 corporation tax on the UK, eg Amazon.

So no the people are not benefiting from the government receiving tax from large profit making companies. The individual parties and MP’s may be benefitting personally.

👏🏻

It’s not as simple as that op. Do some research. It puts prices up but there are other factors mean that it is a better idea.
Your idea is just what the right wing use to justify low pay.

I quit a high-paying job for one which pays the national living wage. Because I enjoy it more, and the lifestyle changes were worth it to me, and Im not hugely financially motivated. I simply don’t believe that this is a minority thing: once you have enough the appeal of more disappears.

It’s not just the money that keeps CEO’s going to work, and we’d not wake up one morning to discover all the directors of every FTSE 250 had quit because their salaries and bonuses had been limited. Look at someone like Bezos: he is after an outlandish project, and just needs the money to get him there. He doesn’t want the money just to be richer. Bill Gates - kind of got rich by accident, he really just loved his product.

my 2nd post about the Keynseian multiplier got eaten (just as well, it was too long)

pp mentioned it: give more money to those at the lower end of the scale and it goes right back into the economy. And that is used by someone else and stays in the economy (unless they all use it to buy stuff of Amazon*)

Personally? I blame Thatcher and Regan for adopting monetarism as an economic, social and political strategy and Thatcher for starting off the great utilities sell off and that absolute disgrace that was selling off the council houses (in itself not bad) and not allowing money raised to be used to build more (i hope she is burning in the hell i don't believe in)

*other non-tax-paying corporations are available

I am not at all sure that my staff are claiming benefits tbh. Even our lowest paid staff would be ineligible for universal credit as single adults, and those with dependents all happen to be on higher salaries in any case. As I said, all of our staff are paid above the real living wage. But regardless, I'm well aware that they may struggle in the coming months and we are already talking to them about how we as an employer can best support them through this.

The staff themselves are obviously worried about the looming crisis but they also regard themselves as much better off than the vulnerable people who they support, and some of them would be quite surprised by your characterisation of them tbh.

If minimum wage goes upto £15ph I would give up my job as a nurse and apply for jobs in my local shops. I’d be earning the same for less stress.

Tbh, I'd be fine with it closing too, if I actually believed that the state would step in to pick up the pieces, but I know that it won't. So until then, we will continue to pay staff the best salaries that we can afford in order to sustain essential services for vulnerable people in the community.

I do actually believe that essential services should be provided by the state, and not the voluntary sector, but people never vote for governments that are prepared to cover the costs of doing what is actually needed, so what should happen in the meantime? Should we just leave people to suffer?

There I'd absolutely no way my employer would be able to pay £15 an hour, it would result in some staff being made redundant.

Better than staff claiming state benefits though isn't it. In the long run.

You really think the CEO pay cut could fund £15 min wage for the entire uk work force is beyond unrealistic

It would be a fucking start.