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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that people have become completely incapable....

1000 replies

memorial · 24/08/2022 00:11

Ok so I'm a GP (yes yes I know I could be anybody) and have been for over 20 years.
But bloody hell our society have become completely and utter incapable of any kind of self care or self responsibility. I have never known anything like the kind of demand we are facing. And I'm sorry most of it is just complete and utter nonsense. Over and over again.
Genuinely ill and needy people are being lost in the deluge. It's absolutely impossible to offer any kind of decent care. And we are losing doctors, nurses and staff rapidly. And we cannot recruit. It's not about pay It's about absolutely ridiculous workload and risk.
Yes the system is broken yes we need more of everything.
But every single thing does not need GP hand holding. It doesn't need 2 page complaints because you didn't get what you wanted when you wanted it.
Some days I just think people won't be happy until I go and wipe their arses for them.
I'm done. And it's not just me.

OP posts:
Mooshroo · 24/08/2022 12:37

Choopi · 24/08/2022 12:32

I don't how it works in the UK because I'm in Ireland and like previous posters have said we pay for our GP visits but can you change GPs there or are you stuck with the same one? I know in your situation here if I felt I wasn't being listened to at my GP practice I would move to another.

Ahh thank you. To be fair to them I have spoken to a few doctors at my practice and they have run quite a few stool samples and blood tests so I’m taking it out on the wrong people really, wish they would refer to Gastro or something like that. If that’s even possible!!! I do have private insurance but because I’ve had IBS so long they won’t investigate either 😅

Fluffycloudland77 · 24/08/2022 12:38

I suspect with young kids people grow up with siblings close in age and genuinely don’t realise kids are ill all the time because they had no massively younger siblings after birth control became easier and more effective.

Howappropriate · 24/08/2022 12:38

I'm in a situation where my chronic, housebound ill health was caused by doctors prescribing really toxic, harmful medication for 30 years- despite academic studies from 17 years ago detailing the harm they do.
My ill health was caused by medical profession. If the profession was more competent, I would not have had dozens of appointments over the past few years. The way medicines are prescribed cause further health problems down the line, leading to more appointments being needed. The medical profession need to look at themselves here.

memorial · 24/08/2022 12:38

Star05 · 24/08/2022 12:34

It's tricky. My GP is closed at weekends, bank Holidays, after 5pm on weekdays, and shut from 12.30 to 1.30 for lunch (why they can't rotate lunches, I don't know). This clogs up phone lines and puts immense pressure on hospitals. I think they try and squeeze too much into a very small time frame.

If you're in the UK this cannot be true or they are in breach of contractual core hours. Can you post a link to their website confirming these hours. Otherwise I call bullshit.

OP posts:
KimberleyClark · 24/08/2022 12:38

CrunchyCarrot · 24/08/2022 12:21

Gosh you clearly know far more than my 10 years of training and 25 years of experience.

Yes, when it comes to thyroid disease then yes I expect I do know a lot more than you do. As do many other thyroid patients I know. We don't want to be in that position, but sadly we are or we end up too ill to do anything. I would not have believed it before I had hypothyroidism that this would be the case. I am still shocked by the lack of care.

Another underactive thyroid patient here. I have also found that as long as your levels are “in the normal range” they don’t care whether you actually feel normal or not. It’s a numbers game.

TwoNightStand · 24/08/2022 12:40

DahliaDreamer · 24/08/2022 11:51

How on earth do these people get an appointment to see their GP so quickly?? There's a min 2 week wait for an appointment at my practice!

Exactly. How are people going far too often? I’ve given up trying to get NHS appointments but still know people that try in our area and can’t. I have friends and family in various parts of England, it’s the same for them. How are they getting appointments because we’ve had to pay privately for the handful of times in the last few years anyone has needed to go. I’ve been completely put off doctors by a few bad experiences and haven’t seen a doctor in years, I guess that suits them. Thankfully, we can afford to pay, but we shouldn’t have to and more importantly what about people that paying privately is not an option for? They end up having to go to a&e, they’re certainly not being handed multiple GP appointments....oh yeah, they got told off for using a&e but what other option fo they have.

HesterShaw1 · 24/08/2022 12:41

Extract from this report on the worried well:

The phrase ‘worried well’ represents a misunderstanding of the nature of general practice in the front line of the national health system, where it is important that patients have a place to go when they have feelings and symptoms that they do not understand. An important part of the GP’s job for 200 years has been to provide reassurance, and this is an implicit and valuable aspect of general practice.

Such a good point, yet we are bundled in and out the door in an eight minute time slot and told if there is more than one issue we need to discuss then we need to make another appointment for it. And that's another two week wait for a telephone appointment then several more days after that you we might get to see someone, if it's deemed appropriate by the doctor we have spoken to. Surely it would make far more sense to do things differently. It feels as though medical issues are annoyances to the person who we go to for reassurance.

BungleandGeorge · 24/08/2022 12:45

Do you have a social prescriber in your practice? Pharmacist? Physio?
don’t you think it’s a minority taking a large amount of time? Huge swathes of the population haven’t seen a GP in years. And do you think this is exacerbated by online consultations? So easy to just type out the form.. in face consultations are still heavily restricted at our practice. In one way online is quicker but I’m sure it increases consultation numbers.
also we know that some communities present more to healthcare because that is the model they are used to. Is your practice tackling that if needed? Time wasters have always existed I think it’s more obvious with reduced capacity

FlakeSnow · 24/08/2022 12:46

Have to say I agree with OP. Couldn’t believe the post about being size 16 and wanting a dietician. They was a complete lack of self responsibility.

Phineyj · 24/08/2022 12:49

Generally, there's no better way to cause additional anxiety in a sick and worried person than to make them wait a lot and then rush them through.

This thread has made me worry that some of the timewasters did have a real issue but couldn't articulate it in 8 minutes.

The 8 minutes is an average also isn't it? I've been out in under a minute sometimes because I've gone in knowing what I have and just need a prescription (one post Covid improvement is much better e-prescribing - Boots are particularly good).

bringonthesunshinefinally · 24/08/2022 12:49

I think people are anxious about their health because the system is so utterly fucked. People are dying of undiagnosed cancers. People are unable to see a consultant in a reasonable amount of time . This creates a sense of panic which could explain why they run to their GP too often . It’s not our fault the NHS is managed badly and it won’t help to blame the patients . It is of course , also not GP’s fault.

GoTeamRocket · 24/08/2022 12:49

I dont think it is really the GPs fault or the patients fault, there are just not enough GPs for the population. It is structural. Also, GPs surgeries have really poor systems/ technology, which means things take longer than it should.

On top of that people are living longer, often in poorer health.

I am type 1 diabetic and I have seen the GP once in about 4 years. But the surgery is forever issuing prescriptions to keeo me alive.

My healthy son has barely seen the GP since is toddler years.

OP - I think that most of the public try and do the right thing but like any public facing role, you probably have to deal with some arseholes.

Ritascornershop · 24/08/2022 12:49

I had a boyfriend some years ago who would take his kids to the doctor every time they had a cold. Literally every time. I was agog at this and he was amazed that I didn’t take my kids in for every minor thing.

I can’t imagine how much worse this sort of attitude is with the government working so hard to make everyone into hypochondriacs over Covid.

guerrillagirl · 24/08/2022 12:52

I had some terrible experiences with my GP when I had PND years ago. The lack of empathy was shocking. Appreciate that you are horribly busy and stressed but bear in mind some of those you are quick to label as time wasters might actually have serious health concerns

mynamesnotMa · 24/08/2022 12:52

It's every where though.
Learned helplessness about everything.
Its like we all seem to have this unrealistic level of entitlement. There's a huge lack of respect for expert advice and sometimes that's justified.
Op I'm in awe of Dr's. Hopefully life will calm down..

Star05 · 24/08/2022 12:52

memorial · 24/08/2022 12:38

If you're in the UK this cannot be true or they are in breach of contractual core hours. Can you post a link to their website confirming these hours. Otherwise I call bullshit.

@memorial www.thewardsmedicalpractice.co.uk/about-us/opening-hours/

There you go... I'm not bullshitting at all!

GlueyMooey · 24/08/2022 12:53

My Dad died of cancer earlier this year. He was a stoic never-go-to-the-doctors type of man. He would underplay all his symptoms and hated being a bother. His GP was AMAZING - just amazing. We were blown away with the standard of care my Dad received both by his GP and at his hospital appointment right through to his death. The GP went out of his way to help my Dad.

It has given us all a tremendous amount of comfort that my Dad died knowing that he had received such good care by everyone and that everyone was so kind to him.

People complain and complain about the NHS but it's not all bad!

OP, yanbu.

hamstersarse · 24/08/2022 12:54

Howappropriate · 24/08/2022 12:38

I'm in a situation where my chronic, housebound ill health was caused by doctors prescribing really toxic, harmful medication for 30 years- despite academic studies from 17 years ago detailing the harm they do.
My ill health was caused by medical profession. If the profession was more competent, I would not have had dozens of appointments over the past few years. The way medicines are prescribed cause further health problems down the line, leading to more appointments being needed. The medical profession need to look at themselves here.

I hate to be so rude, I really do. But did you not notice over a 30 year period that a medication was causing such drastic side effects?

jacks11 · 24/08/2022 12:54

I am also a Dr and I recognise what OP says. I’m not an GP, but I do know from my own experience and from friends who are GP’s and HCP’s in many other specialty’s that there is a huge amount of what we call “acopia”- there must be a pill or quick fix for almost every illness or symptom- even self-limiting, short-lived illness. Someone else must reassure or make the decision (“I’m not taking ANY chances” is not always a reasonable stance) as I don’t want to have any responsibility for myself/my child and if things don’t go to plan, then I’m not to blame/it’s your fault. Of course it is not everyone or even a majority but it is a creeping minority.

My GP friends report frustration that emergency appointments are being demanded for things like a sore throat that started that morning “just in case it’s tonsillitis”, a mild cough for a few days in an otherwise well child, minor injuries such as grazes “just in case” (or in one memorable case because the child cried when mum tried to clean the graze and mum didn’t like upsetting him), for warts/verrucas/blisters (yes, blisters), diarrhoea of a few hours duration in fit, healthy people… the list is endless. Others attend for things that are social problems (I’m not happy with mum’s package of care- you need to get them to do x/the council says you need to sign this form to say I need x/y/z or that I need to be given a/b or because I want to be moved etc) or educational (e.g. many parents tell their GP that the school has told them their child will be seen quicker for their adhd/add/sen assessments if the GP does the referral- which simply isn’t true. I don;t know if this is genuinely something schools are telling parents or it’s just desperate parents trying to get help ASAP). Around exam time they are inundated with requests for extra time due to “anxiety” when the young person in question is indeed anxious about the upcoming examination (which is fairly normal) but does not have an anxiety disorder. They don’t need a medical review, they need to be given parental support, possibly some help or training from school, as to how to manage their justified feelings of worry without pathologising normal feelings into an illness. All of this means that the people who do need emergency appointments but aren’t as pushy don’t get seen, or wait longer.

I have never come across so much anger, anxiety and belligerence in all my working life. I know the waiting times are longer than any of us think is ok, I know there is frustration- but equally, we see this in people who actually haven’t waited that long or are being actively treated. I can’t fix the problems in the system, nor can the admin team or the nurses though and just shouting and berating us and complaining usually won’t get you anywhere (unless a legitimate complaint) because our hands are tied, not because we are uncaring or incompetent. And yes, I do know not all NHS staff are angels, the NHS is far, far from perfect. I am aware some staff are lazy or incompetent or rude or arrogant. Or a combination of all of the above. And yes, even the best of us make mistakes because we are human and therefore not infallible.

One of the most frustrating things is that for an increasing number of patients, if the suggested treatment/course of action requires effort on their part (and it can be as basic as bringing in recordings for a few weeks before and then after treatment- so many people turn up without the most basic of things asked of them) or does not work instantly, they either don’t do what is suggested or don’t persist long enough to know if there is treatment failure or just needs longer/trial of higher dose. And then demand you do something to fix it NOW. Or have done their own research and decided what they need and that is the only thing they will accept. I’m more than happy to listen to any thoughts they have, but it would be nice if more would listen to my explanation of why that is not the best of treatment, or understand that if it is not available in this country/liscenced for that use/not available on the NHS then I can’t unilaterally decide to give it to them in the basis than Dave next door read in The Sun /my mum’s friend Janice said/Laura on MN told me/Dr Google said Dr Dodgy in USA has done a trial of 1 patient with x “revolutionary treatment” and it was “amazing”. It is so hugely frustrating and whilst it isn’t the majority, it is a growing number.

on a personal note, I have never in many years in practice been verbally abused and threatened by patients and their families, shouted at, blamed for things out of my control, told I am “choosing to kill” their relatives. Complaints that patients aren’t getting the treatment they want- even in many cases when it really isn’t appropriate or clinically necessary. All of these things used to happen occasionally- we all know sometimes shock and grief can make people react in ways they normally wouldn’t and is an accepted part of the job- but now it’s more frequent and not always in cases which involve grief stricken families, for instance.

Covid and the subsequent fall out, on a background of chronic neglect, political over-promising to garner votes without providing the requisite resources (financial, physical, technical/IT and staffing), poor workforce planning, constant meddling/changing of systems/procedures/organisation have all knocked the service and much of it’s staff sideways. We are increasingly demoralised, tired and utterly fed up. So many are looking to find ways out and we are struggling to keep staff. From all levels and in all professions. I have reduced my NHS hours and now doing private work- patients can still be demanding but I have a lot more say in who I do and do not see and there are much stricter rules about managing mistreatment of staff. Pay is better, conditions of service are better. I’m not the only one, some colleagues are planning to retire very early, some leaving NHS altogether. Two of my very colleagues have taken jobs abroad. One of the junior dr’s (we are already several short) and a few nurses in our team have applied for work abroad. I’m sad, in some ways, as the principle of the NHS is a great one but I think the system has been creaking for some time but is now steadily crumbling and very soon will simply fail.

potniatheron · 24/08/2022 12:55

Thge NHS was not designed for the demographic we have today.

It was designed when the population was smaller and lived for far fewer years.

it was designed to REACT - broke your arm - we'll fix you - not for long term chronic conditions over many years, or for preventative care, or for social care (or for giving children puberty blockers but that's another story).

It needs topdown reform, or we need a two tier system where people earning over a certain salary have to take out insurance through their employer.

What we have now is in its death throes and there's no point pretending that bunging it another £100 billion will help.

Katypp · 24/08/2022 12:57

Assuming the OP is a GP, it's interesting the responses they got in

Glitterbiscuits · 24/08/2022 13:00

Thanks for all the work you do @memorial and your colleagues.

Very enlightening thread.

I've seen the inability for people to think/fend for themselves all over social media and various internet groups.

How much spending money shall I take on holidays?
What should I put in my packed lunch?
Shall I paint this wall blue?
Do I go to A and E as little Johnny threw up?
The most trivial and pointless stuff that shouldn't need a second opinion

I think people must be getting stupider!

LargeLegoHaul · 24/08/2022 13:00

memorial · 24/08/2022 12:38

If you're in the UK this cannot be true or they are in breach of contractual core hours. Can you post a link to their website confirming these hours. Otherwise I call bullshit.

There are many GP surgeries who close for lunch. A quick google search will show you this happens across the UK, for example here, here and here.

AbsoluteTruths · 24/08/2022 13:00

Your GP is open 8 hours daily though so that's the contractual hours covered
Star05

southlondonerhere · 24/08/2022 13:03

Thatboymum · 24/08/2022 00:17

Maybe your in the wrong profession if you lack so much empathy for your patients like this. What’s trivial to you maybe isn’t to them

Having a cold, bruising a toe and needing a new carpet are all examples of what some people go to the gp for

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