What do people think about rail strikes?

[ITUnurse]

I cannot find any threads on the rail strikes / opinion of them.

I personally do support the strikes. We in the NHS will face a similar struggle shortly. I support the rights of workers to strike. Conditions at the moment are dire.

However, if England is so right wing and strikes aren't supported and the Tories continue to be voted in. I've not seen much public support online except from a few and I'm at risk of being in an echo chamber.

Ultimately if England is so under the thumb of the tories, I'm not sure what the long term solution is. The rest of the UK doesn't return the Tories in such numbers.

If you don't support strike action, what do you think the rail workers, NHS workers etc should do? We've already got people leaving enmasse. It's difficult to comment on the conditions of a job you don't work in and nurses regularly get gaslighted on here I am genuinely concerned as to what is going to happen to the public sector of the UK with this right wing stranglehold.

Thanks

I'm sure funnybeaux will be much happier in a country with no labour rights. Well, until that comes to bite them in the arse, which it will.

One individual demanding a higher wage might improve their wage, but an entire union negotiating a better collective agreement improves the wages and conditions for everyone, including those who aren't good at demanding things themselves, or don't dare risk losing their job by making demands as an individual, even improves things for those who aren't in unions.

Lots of NHS staff are leaving (often going abroad). There are skills shortages all over. As the government has a monopoly though, they just carry on as if nothing was wrong and let the waiting lists pile up.

To begin with there is an aim to close all ticket offices except at big mainline stations because 'everyone buys online now'. The 1000s of staff will simply be discarded to save money, totally overlooking the fact that the railway is a public service for all and not just those with a smartphone.

Yes. That's how business work. A job is no longer needed so it's a waste to employ someone to do it. You don't need a smartphone to use a ticket machine.

Secondly it is proposed that all service and maintenance intervals be extended. So monthly inspections will become every other month and so on. This is a potential major safety issue and solely aimed at saving money. Many current NR trackside employees will be made redundant and the work contracted to companies who will pick up and drop cheap agency workers as it suits.

That's not for the workers to decide though, is it? If the company deem bimonthly inspections are good enough then that's up to them.

Lastly - and a bit complicated - track walk inspections are done in daylight with a look out man to protect the men working. NR aim to scrap this method and do all the inspections overnight, temporarily closing a section of line to check it. To achieve this the lineside workers will forced to agree to a new contract and will have to do a minimum of 38 weeks of nights. Or they'll just ship in agency staff on lower pay and poor conditions of service.

This makes sense to me. Much safer to carry out inspections on a closed track. The way the work is being carried out is changing so of course contracts will have to change. Why would the company employ day staff if the work is carried out at night?

So all these reasons are completely logical from a business perspective. What is striking meant to achieve? Try and get the company to change their minds and stick with the 'old ways'? Why would they? It would be foolish for the business.

Have you switched sides?

I don't believe the Tories have any intention of "fixing" the NHS, its an open goal for Labour, who could say they will remove tuition fees and give rebates for those who have paid towards them.

Friend of mine, band 6 is leaving for a job in Canada, 20 years of experience gone.

When DD worked in care, whilst at Uni, so many EU care workers left, many UK workers went to work in super markets/bars etc for more money and not wrecking their own cars.

To be honest wales have had Labour and everything's still shit here.

Wales isn't a separate country and is subject to many UK wide policies that effect its health service, not least primary care, training, pay and retention

Indo understand. But many things here are devolved. And it's all still very shit.
I just warn people that Labour may not be the Knight in shining armour many hope for.

This labour Governemnt seem to be just slightly poorer Tories.

I don’t support the rail strikes. We live in a country where many essential workers have to commute, the strikes punish ordinary workers and play into the hands of the government who want to demonise unions. Also, rail salaries are not bad for what is a pretty easy job, you can’t compare it to the high levels of training, infection risk and resilience required in the NHS. I get the problem with train guards, I want train guards, but striking won’t help. Let’s face it one day trains will all be fully automated with no driver or staff and security will be provided by cameras and help buttons. I don’t have a problem with moving in that direction.

If the rail drivers etc really want to strike they should at least do it Japan style where they continue to deive the trains but refuse to sell/inspect tickets / man barriers. That way the rail company doesn’t get its profit but customers can still travel.

(I would renationalise rail for sure. Doesn’t make any sense to privatise an industry where there’s no competition. “Oh, the train to Glasgow is rubbish, I’ll get the train to Folkestone instead.”)

I do support the barristers strike over legal aid. Doesn’t cause problems for ordinary people and they’re right that the government is basically destroying access to justice for the poor.

I wouldn’t support an NHS strike because people are already dying while they wait for medical help, slowing it down further would literally kill people. Striking will not change government policies just give them an excuse to sell off chunks of the NHS to American investors.

The answer to all this is less incompetent politicians. I wish more bright people would go into politics instead of leaving the field clear for the dregs.

This labour Governemnt seem to be just slightly poorer Tories

What Labour government? We haven’t had one for 12 years. We have absolutely no idea what the next one will be like. The thing that’s certain is that it won’t be any worse than this Tory one.

Alright love. Labour Party.

We do. Because the Labour leader has told MPs not to go to picket lines....the lead or the Labour Party

The Party created for the unions and workers to have a voice.

It may not be worse. But I no longer have hope it will be better.

But also again wales do have a Labour Government and we are not OK

I’m not going to base my voting decisions on whether or not MPs are encouraged to turn up on picket lines. You may well have a devolved Labour government in Wales, it’s still subject to the spending decisions and legislation of the Tories in Westminster so its hands are tied.

Okay, £24-26k is way too high for a railway salary. Of course it is.....

Exactly 🤦🏻 the two jobs are hardly comparable.

Look out doesn't happen and has happened for years in Scotland.

*hasn't happened!

train drivers, signallers and a whole host of technical and maintenance staff take years to train and learn their patch

This is the key thing really. Being a train driver is very hard. I've seen a description of what signallers do on the "Secrets of the London Underground" programme and oh my goodness they deserve every penny they get!

They're already getting rid of ticket offices by very rarely having them open. You're more likely to win the lottery than find my local ticket office open. It would probably be a better use of staff to do away with guards on trains; do away with ticket office staff and have staff on stations who can sell tickets if people need help and can't use the ticket machines (which are much better than they were, and sell most tickets now), and provide help for the disabled. The disabled are continually ignored and don't get their booked assistance - the RMT could actually strike about that! Guards don't provide a presence on late night trains as they hide away in their little boxes, so that is not a reason to keep them either.

I am not well enough informed to have a view on the inspection/maintenance intervals etc.

That doesn't explain why many of our public services are measurably worse than those in England.

Incidentally, my county council is run by a Tory-led coalition. I've no complaints about how it's run, the roads are in a reasonable state of repair and I never find my bins overflowing. Council tax is lower than neighbouring counties too.

Let’s face it one day trains will all be fully automated with no driver or staff and security will be provided by cameras and help buttons.

That might happen on Crossrail and other new projects. It will never happen on most of the existing lines, you will always need a member of staff onboard in case of emergency because cramped Victorian tunnels don't lend themselves well to passengers evacuating themselves unaided.

(I would renationalise rail for sure. Doesn’t make any sense to privatise an industry where there’s no competition. “Oh, the train to Glasgow is rubbish, I’ll get the train to Folkestone instead.”)

Yes and no. The whole thing of having multiple operating companies competing directly with each other was a daft idea when the duplicate lines that would have allowed it were pruned in the 1960s. There is still some internal competition, as Avanti's service is appalling at the moment you might prefer to go with LNER from Kings Cross to Glasgow instead. The belief that railways hold a monopoly hasn't added up for years anyway, rail is in competition with airlines, coaches, and private cars.

I'd sooner see the railway turned into a vertically-integrated system. Doesn't have to be one massive company, it could be divvied up on a regional basis. The important thing should be that the infrastructure and trains share common management so that everyone is pulling together.

It needs more independence too. BR was handed its annual sum of money by the Treasury and largely left to get on with the job, which it did a reasonable job with the limited resources provided once it had a chance to organise itself. Under so-called privatisation on the other hand, Whitehall is micro-managing the railway to an impossible degree, every expense over £500 needs to be rubber-stamped by central government, even though the admin costs of doing this often exceeds the cost of whatever spare part they were buying in the first place.

I oppose strikers, nobody should be allowed to strike if it damages service levels. If people aren't happy with their job or conditions they should just resign. That way one of two things will happen, they'll be replaced by someone prepared to do the job for that pay, or the employer will have to improve the offer to attract people.

I wholeheartedly agree that pay rises should have the same triple lock guarantee that pensioners get, but it should be for ALL workers, not just those who shout the loudest or cause the most disruption.

I suppose a compromise could be that people continue to be allowed to strike, but unions and their members are financially liable for problems the strike causes. That way strikes would be seen as a last resort rather than the primary option. A benefit of this would be that those strikes which cause the most harm would prohibitively expensive for the strikers, the prospect of personal financial ruin for union members might make them consider whether it's worth striking over or perhaps they should just find themselves a different job.

I don't understand the mentality of those who say they wholeheartedly support the right to strike. I can't help but feel if it were their child who was denied lifesaving treatment because doctors were on strike, or whose rapist was released from prison because prison officers were on strike, or whose region was destroyed in a nuclear power plant catastrophe because the technicians were on strike, they'd have a different view.

Striking is mob rule. Maybe it feels good but mob rule is always doomed to fail.

Dotjones I can only assume you never worked in your life. Such rubbish you spout. Go back up the chimneys, kids.

To everyone saying not to strike - what are the alternatives?

I can't help but feel if it were their child who was denied lifesaving treatment because doctors were on strike, or whose rapist was released from prison because prison officers were on strike, or whose region was destroyed in a nuclear power plant catastrophe because the technicians were on strike, they'd have a different view.

Medical staff going on strike does not prevent lifesaving treatment happening, they make sure that there is enough staff for essential purposes but for example things like elective surgeries won't happen. Or they strike in certain areas and not others so patients are moved to a different hospital that isn't in the strike area.
And no one is going to release rapists or allow nuclear accidents either. Don't be ridiculous.

And no one is going to release rapists

Unfortunately that could be a side effect of the barristers’ strike. Not that I think it should be a deterrent, the amount junior barristers are paid is shocking.

I wish I could go on strike! I am an unpaid carer.