Or is this inappropriate for a summer camp?

[Herewegoagain84]

My five year old has been going for a few days here and there over the summer to a day camp based at a school - well known company - seems to really enjoy it. This morning she mentioned that a few days ago they did “lockdown training” and she had to hide under a desk. She has been asking questions about what a lockdown is etc. We are in London.

Considering I don’t think this has been introduced in schools / we don’t have the same record as the US in this country, AIBU that this was an inappropriate “activity” to do with a group of five year olds? I want to call them to discuss it, as if they planned this I think it should have been brought to the attention of parents. If they did it as a game, I think that’s even weirder?

@itrytomakemyway But surely in those situations, all that needs to happen is that someone calls the police and teachers lock the doors and keep the kids occupied away from the windows explaining as much as is appropriate depending on their age. Not sure why that would require a drill. Just basic training for staff.

Surely it is best to have a prepared drill before hand than to have to go into explanations at the time - just as we do with fire drills. It is a matter of knowing what to do and keeping everyone calm.

This report details some known threats that have been dealt with more recently than Dunblane. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/texas-school-shootings-us-uk-terror-b2089097.html?amp

I also recall the attack in Wolverhampton (Google Lisa Potts) on a school nursery.

Not sure why that would require a drill

for the same reasons it’s good to have a fire drill. In scary situations people panic and flounder, if there is a practised plan in place everyone is aware of they need to ‘do’ and that there is an end to look for. I can certainly see the value in it for someone like my dd who tends to go for freeze in fight, flight or freeze situations.

I've worked at a Summer camp in the UK where we had to lockdown before due to trespassers breaking into the site.

I've worked at dozens of primary schools on supply. Most have had invacuation or lockdown policies and drills.

Places are safer when children and adults know what to do.

The schools in my area have regular lockdown drills - maybe once every 1 or 2 years (fire drills are more regular)
AFAIK they have had 'real' lockdowns because of

1. parents fight in the playground (!)
2. Police chase in the area - then the person escapades on foot
3. person with a knife outside the school - this was at home time But lock downs can be for a variety of reasons ie chemical spill - we are v near a lot of factories

At my current school the lockdown is all students go to the sports hall, which I think is a bit and doesn't make sense!

@itrytomakemyway You can’t have a drill for every conceivable situation so some level of explanation will always be necessary. You wouldn’t have any detailed info at that point anyway so explanations would be short and simple. And staff training should cover the knowing what to do and keeping everyone calm.

staff training should cover the knowing what to do and keeping everyone calm

does staff training extend to knowing when it’s safe to emerge? (Thinking back to my post about not unlocking doors to people claiming to be something they’re not).

Anyway- a few years back we were visiting family and my mother for various reasons did not want her sisters to know we were there (complicated explanation I will not go into but is all based around toxic family dynamics). She heard that they would be in the area one day and told us that if there was a knock on the door we were to stay very quiet. (I know it sounds bonkers, but this was a feature of my childhood as well so seemed vaguely normal).

The knock came and both DCs dropped to the floor below the window line and lay quiet as mice.

They told me afterwards that this is what they had been taught during lockdown drills.

So never mind big dogs and foxes- lockdown drills are useful for avoiding random Aunts as well.

@Cornettoninja A fire drill is more complex. A drill for moving a class full of kids outside calmly and keeping them in a specified location I understand. Everyone needs to know where to go and the best way to get there. A drill for staying in their classroom… not so much.

@allabouttheviews exactly my point - you don't train for every possible situation. The drill is simple and easier to do once the children have practiced it. You stay in the room you are currently in, the teacher locks the door, the blinds are pulled down, the class stay quiet. You stay there until the agreed signal that the threat is over.

It is much better to have a drill beforehand as there will be less panic. The same way we do fire drills. It is much better if the children think that what is happening is 'just another drill' rather than an actual potential threat.

Not a teacher so I don’t know but I hope so! Presumably wait for all clear from police (with id) or another member of staff.

It's an ofsted requirement to do regular fire and lockdown drills and summer camps also have to have ofsted registration.

A school local to us had to follow the protocol not long ago when a wolf escaped from a wildlife park.

This is why you have to have a drill - so that everyone already knows what the agreed 'safe to end' signal is.

Where on earth do you live?! Is your Headteacher neurotic by any chance?

@allabouttheviews logistically I agree about fire drills but different things apply to a threat inside the school. Managing children who are likely to be spooked/resistant just by being asked to behave in a way completely unknown to them has it’s own risks and further effects after the fact. It’s much better to process this kind of information in a safe practise scenario than an actual emergency when the atmosphere is charged.

if nothing else to quell the curious array of ‘why’s’

We have to do both an evacuation and an invacuation every term, and report back to Governors.
we don’t call it a lockdown though, and don’t hide under tables. We tell the little ones that we have to stay inside because there’s a fire outside - so we have to close windows and doors.
it came in handy last term as we had a genuine invacuation when some idiot decided to wave a shotgun round on the estate our school is located in. We were locked down for 2 hours!

I discovered they happen at my DS1's school (he was in Reception) by accident earlier this year. He had forgotten his lunch box so I walked up to school with it. When I arrived I thought it was a bit quiet - normally

Did you cause the lockdown @SockQueen or merely stumble across it?

This isn't a new thing, although it is new to some settings.

My primary school was located close to Broadmoor. We did regular drills as a child in case a prisoner escaped, and twice the school had to lockdown for real due to escapes.

We were all used to weekly testing of the sirens and were unbothered when the sirens went off for real. The teacher were probably terrified though.

I'm pretty sure I just stumbled on it, but clearly upset Mumsnet because half my post disappeared! I was wielding nothing more dangerous than a ham sandwich!

There was absolutely no chatter to hear and all the blinds were down. There was a weird buzzing sound (which must have been the alarm) and the school reception was all locked up. Nobody answering the phone. It was eerie.

Fortunately I'd read and lockdown drills on MN so guessed this might be what was happening. The buzzing eventually stopped and the reception staff confirmed it. Asked DS about it at the end of the day and he was completely unfazed - they'd been told it was in case of "something dangerous outside." It's sad that it's needed but I'd rather they practised than not.

@Vincitveritas Honestly the kids are not fazed one bit, we are a bigger than average primary school and have never had a complaint,
They are handled in an age appropriate way and last 15mins of the day once a term.

Exactly the same for a fire - someone calls the fire brigade and the teachers just lead the children out into the playground? No need for a drill.

What if its break time? Or children are walking back from the office or library? Also how would a teacher know the specifics of a situation?

You don't wait for visible flames before you evacuate so why would you for a visibly dangerous weapon before taking precautions? Always prepare for the worst case. I would much rather my child was aware there was a possible danger than the teacher locking the door and acting like everything is OK.

@Connie2468 I think with a fire drill it’s a good idea for everyone to know where to go in advance and where each class needs to stand. Also to know where the nearest fire escape is along with alternatives if that one is blocked.

@MichonnesBBF I'm all for health and safety but this seems a bit OTT. Personally I would have been scared witless as a child - imaginary wolves and burglars were bad enough!