To not understand why people adopt feral dogs from Eastern Europe?

[Elmore]

I don’t get it, there’s thousands of dogs in the U.K. that need homes, so why go to the effort (and expense) of importing these wild street dogs?

I’d be interested to see the proof that what you say is true.

I love your dog climbs trees! Really tickled me.

They are also objectively better than UK dogs - mongrels, more intelligent, not inbred, more robust (genetically) and characterful.

🙄

Hi,

I co-founded and run a charity that adopts dogs from Eastern Europe. There's lots of misinformed commenting on here, so whilst I usually wouldn't engage I wanted to clear a few things up.

1 - DISEASES: all dogs that enter the UK must pass DEFRA requirements. That means they must be chipped and vaccinated for all the obvious nasties (including rabies) and their blood is tested a month later to confirm the presence of antibodies. On arrival in the UK dogs must pass a vet check and a 48 hour quarantine in DEFRA approved kennels. Dogs coming into the UK are safer from a disease perspective than any already in the UK. Recently there has been extensive clamping down on dogs travelling in to the UK to control Romanian puppy farming, so every dog leaving a country has a file 'opened' and that file cannot be 'closed' until the dog completes. Every dog has a huge file of paperwork and extensive tracking, far more than a UK dog. Obviously behaviour can be hidden in some ways, but aggressive dogs will not pass the vet check.

The only thing they may not be vaccinated for is Kennel Cough because it doesn't exist in some Eastern European countries.

2 - WHY ADOPT FROM EASTERN EUROPE: well that's multi-layered and you may agree or not. The main argument - if I were being a bit blunt - is what difference does it make? A dog in need is a dog in need.

However, I think the answer is more complicated. Firstly, UK rescues place INSANE requirements on adopters. We generally rehome to wonderful people who have jobs/mild disabilities/children all of which gets them rejected from other rescues. We have even rehomed to people who WFH but live in flats next to green spaces

Secondly, in my opinion and experience, UK rescue dogs are often (not always obvs) in rescue because idiots have adopted cute puppies with no idea how to train them and the consequence is they have learnt bad behaviour. Our dogs have two desires: a loving home and food. And they will do whatever you want them to do if they get those two things. Street dogs rarely have terrible behaviours because that wouldn't help them survive. Survival on the street requires being people and dog friendly, so the friendliest gene pool tends to survive. Of course, once in a home they can if allowed develop a 'you can't have this' attitude, they aren't perfect, but having rehired over a thousand Eastern European dogs, only a handful have developed behavioural issues.

Lastly, conditions in these countries are worth saving dogs from. In the country I operate in the average monthly income is €300, and city workers in the dog pounds are horrific. Drugs that are supposed to be used to humanely euthanise dogs are stolen by workers and sold to subsidise their income. We recently took over welfare at a city fund and the dogs were being 'euthanised' with plastic shopping bags/being set fire. In the UK the WORST fate a dog faces is humane euthanising. To not be active in these countries and showing those in charge that people outside the country are watching puts yet more dogs at risk of horrific endings.

I might add - rehoming in the UK is the SMALLEST part of our work. Our main goal is proving we can humanely control dog populations through neutering, sadly people don't donate to CNR schemes, they like their donation to have a 'face' - it's why so many rescues are forced to share sad rescue videos.

Anyway. I hope that's useful to some people. I'm not interested in getting into big debates about it, but it's blatantly silly to tar ALL dogs from one country/area with the same brush based on a couple of experiences across a lifetime. I have had dogs all my life. I now have 3 dogs, 2 from Romania and 1 from Serbia. I've never had a moment of aggression from any of them and they are the easiest dogs I've ever owned. I cannot recommend Eastern European dogs highly enough.

If you are considering adopting a dog from abroad, go with one that has rescue back-up/a fostering system in the UK. Ideally do a foster-to-adopt placement to make sure the dog is right for you.

Meanwhile thousands of healthy, nice - natured dogs in rescue centres and stray kennels are put to sleep every year. And why? Because it's now a status symbol to say you got your dog from abroad
Complete bullsh1t.
I applied to at least 24 different dog charities, RSPCA, Dogs Trust etc across the south of England and Wales, looking for a dog, not necessarily a puppy. We are retired, keen walkers, have an enclosed garden, plenty of local walks, would take the dog on holiday with us, experienced dog owners etc.
We got nowhere because either you already had to have a dog or they were staffie crosses/rotwelier crosses which I didn’t want because of bad experiences.
I now have a wonderful Romanian rescue, we were thoroughly vetted and had a home inspection. She came from a kill shelter (so if the PP who thought they were better off left running feral would like to see just what that means for dogs I suggest they Google it 😱).
She’s settled in beautifully, she’s actually been easier than some of my previous dogs!) and I would definitely go down that route again.
She came fully vaccinated, microchipped, wormed and with passport.

I don’t think I need to justify why to anyone else, but I am getting really pissed off with the ludicrous statements being made by people who quite frankly appear to be sh1t stirring rather than accepting we have free choice in this country.

@CentralBark
Well said.
Here’s my wonderful rescue in her usual position!

Complete bullsh1t.

It's not BS. You've just said there were plenty of good dogs looking for homes in British kennels which you didn't fancy having. Some of those will be put to sleep because no one fancied them. How is that different from them being put to sleep in Romania? Other than we call it PTS in a kennel and they call it an emotive kill shelter?

I have no idea why people do this either, though I know people who have. An animal you met on holiday and formed a bond with, maybe. A random animal from a website that you haven't had chance to meet and assess its personality, I just don't get it. I do hope that some of the proceeds from people doing this are going towards a TNR programme though.

I see the op has disappeared.

Anyway, I’m at the opposite end of this issue. I live in Europe and volunteer in animal rescue. I have bottle fed countless abandoned puppies and kittens. Some of the pups are rehomed here , but quite a few have been rehomed in the U.K.

The charities I work with assess all the dogs, all are health tested and treated as necessary and often go into foster homes for a full assessment. No ‘feral’ dogs are offered for adoption, ever.

I do despair of people who make grand pronouncements without doing the tiniest amount of research 🙄

@CentralBark thank you so much

Someone who knows seems to know more than you about this has just posted to say the dogs are killed using plastic bags or set on fire. That doesn’t happen to dogs in UK shelters who are well fed, kindly treated, and painlessly euthanised if a home can’t be found for them

I know two people who have adopted from Romania. One works full time, lives alone in a desperately messy house that you'd have to see to believe (think hoarder tendencies) and has also got several cats and various other pets. There's no way she'd have passed a UK home check. The other lives in an upstairs flat with no access to a garden and very little room inside. Again, would not have been accepted by a UK rescue. In both cases a refusal would have been absolutely the right thing. Instead, they brought two more dogs into the country. I struggle to get behind that as a positive thing to be honest.

Because shelters in the UK have no interest in giving any of their dogs to people with children, jobs, existing pets, hair, limbs or eyes.

If that's true why don't the charities there have them put to sleep humanely like the charities in the UK do. Pentobarbital isn't that expensive and you don't need to pay a qualified vet to do it. One of the charity workers can do it. Because even if they rehome dogs across Europe, they're still going to have dogs in their kill centre. So why not do some charity work in there?

This is such a load of rubbish. Of course they rehome to families with children, with existing pets, and jobs if appropriate. I have no idea what hair, limbs or else refer to.
People who work in rescue centres get minimum wage. They work there because they love the animals. You think they'd prefer to see them pts rather than in a good home? 🙄

I do think that's terrible. Our homes all have to pass rigourous home checks much like UK rescues, and we check in on the dogs regularly.

It's sad, but due to the appalling conditions for stray dogs in places like Romania, some Romanian rescues are little more than a lone desperate dog lover. The way they see it is ANY home is better than the dog staying in Romania, and the see the UK as some magical place of wealth and kindness. But I agree, the home you detailed sounds inappropriate for any pet.

I don't agree with importing foreign rescues but I also don't agree with how restrictive UK charities are when it comes to the rehoming process.

It's almost impossible to adopt in this country if you have children, other animals, a job or a small garden. No wonder people buy from breeders or go abroad.

"Meanwhile thousands of healthy, nice - natured dogs in rescue centres and stray kennels are put to sleep every year. And why? Because it's now a status symbol to say you got your dog from abroad."

But this totally isn't true is it? Enough people have said on this thread that it is nigh on impossible to rescue a dog from the established UK rescues.

🙄 That's not true.

OK guess all the people on this thread saying they were unable to adopt in the UK are lying then and are all actually Cruella DeVille in disguise?

We are not suitable to adopt as we work and have small children.
We have 2 Eastern European dogs who have the best life a dog could ask for. But apparently what we could offer was still not 'appropriate' for any UK rescue we approached.

I don't doubt volunteers are compassionate and doing what they think is best for dogs, but the 'best' seems to be close to utopia. To say that a dog is better in a shelter than in a home on a main street, like a pp posted?

We adopted beautiful puppy then 6 months old from Romania. He was found on the streets and in a terrible state.
We had a number of extensive home checks and we had to proof that the dog would be registered with a vet. We were offered a lot of UK based support and follow ups.
Our now 3 year old boy is the sweetest and most affectionate dog and so gentle with our children. I would trust him more then our older home bred JR who we have had since a puppy.

Yes we took a risk but then getting any dog is a risk to an extent. A good nature is not guaranteed in any animal.

I've got a dog from Romania.

He's a collie crossed with something. He's absolutely gorgeous, he isn't feral at all but he is hard work.

I didn't know he was from Romania when I saw his picture on the website and fell in love with him.

People who work in rescue centres get minimum wage. They work there because they love the animals. You think they'd prefer to see them pts rather than in a good home?

The minimum wage workers and the volunteers aren't the ones who set the criteria for rehoming though.

And the criteria for rehoming are ridiculous. We were turned down because we had cats and because our garden was too small and also because DH's parents (who live round the corner) would be helping with the dog occasionally

We got a puppy who is now four - he lives happily with three cats, has an amazing relationship with my in-laws and is walked for hours a day and comes to work with me so is rarely left.

No one except a vet should be putting any animal to sleep.

But to respond to your comment, we do. Animals that are un-rehomable due to illness/aggression we humanely euthanise at our shelter. We even 'trade' with the city pounds that we will organise to have these animals PTS if you allow us to bring our vet in for a day to neuter the dogs the pound. We don't want to rehome dogs to the UK, we actually lose money by doing so - it costs around £550 per dog to bring it (legally and safely) to the UK. We charge a £300 adoption fee. For every dog we rehome in the UK we home another 3 in the country we operate.

But - I cannot stress this enough - pounds there aren't like here. Some city pounds don't even have workers there from Fri eve-sunday morning, so the dogs are not fed/cleaned in that time. One pound (that we have since taken over) used to put small dogs in with big dogs on a Friday night so the big dogs would kill and eat the small ones. One vet (now in jail) was stitching up bitches after neutering with ribbon "for fun". These dogs were dying in agony.

I cannot describe the levels of depravity SOME (not all) Eastern European shelters succumb to. During the floods a few years ago we went to a flooding shelter and BEGGED them to release all their 36 dogs to us. They refused, left all the dogs chained in cages. They all drowned. To them this was a gift - their shelter was empty. They made their money (they get paid per dog that leaves the shelter whether dead or alive) by getting rid of all the dogs AND they got to laugh at us for caring about 'stupid dogs'.

And, of course, there is legal resistance within the countries. We cannot just walk into a shelter and euthanise them all, even if we wanted to. (And we don't).

You may not agree, and that's fine, but in my very experienced opinion I am absolutely comfortable prioritising dogs in these countries over UK dogs. I have also adopted amazing dogs from UK shelters, and I absolutely will again, but their fate is nothing compared to those in Eastern EU countries.

There's a gap between what the british public want from rescues, and what rescues have as their own objective.

Rescues are only interested in the dog. They are not bothered about whether the dog has the characteristics to be a good family pet, they are only bothered about locating a home for the dog that places its needs/wants above everything else.

Their ideal adopter is an altruistic volunteer with no other commitments, who is solely focussed on the dog - essentially an extension of the rescue itself.

The general public perceive rescues as places to acquire a pet.

In the UK most rescues dont like to talk about this (because it would reduce their income flows) but the reason they dont want to home their dogs to families etc is because a high proportion of the dogs ending up in rescues are difficult breeds, poorly socialised, aggressive or reactive, or displaying other undesirable behaviours like guarding. Many have had traumatic experiences and have challenging behaviours as a result. These dogs are not really suitable pets for families. They need specific care from experienced animal handlers.

So actually what we end up with is a shortage of pet dogs. This leads to the inevitable puppy farms, imports etc.

There are two ways to resolve this:

• increase decent, regulated supply of suitable pet dogs. Perhaps charities with the necessary expertise could get involved in breeding, providing training to new owners etc, income from this could cross subsidise caring properly for challenging rescue dogs who in reality aren't suitable for most domestic homes.

• reduce demand by creating limitations and restrictions on who can own a dog. Licenses, testing, fines etc. This is likely to be politically unpopular and will never happen.

We are not suitable to adopt as we work and have small children.

You might great. You might be responsible and keep it separate from your small children when it gets boisterous. You might come home in your lunch time to let the dog out. You might have a relative that us reliable in their commitment to looking after the dog during the day. You might not get a dog with separation anxiety when you're at work and that howls all day.

But not everyone is you. No one gets a dog thinking it won't work out. Most people get one thinking it will be a bit of work but not knowing how hard. And that's why they end up being returned. Because people let the dogs jump on the kids, the kids cry, get scared, get scratched. Dog gets returned.
It becomes too much of a commitment to return home at lunch everyday. It's a drag. Feel guilty, not serving dogs needs, blah, blah, blah. Dog gets returned
Relative made a commitment but now looking after a grandchild whose allergic, or they got a job, or they're moving, blah, blah,blah. Dog gets returned.
Dog gets left every day. Feels lonely. Howls. Neighbours complain. Council called. Dog gets returned.
And I could go on.

This might not be you but this is people in your situation. How is a homechecker to know which one you are.

Every time a dog is returned, its chance of getting a successful home decreases and it's risk of being PTS increases. They don't rehome lightly. And they don't refuse lightly. They want the dogs gone from the kennels because they have a waiting list of dogs to come in.