To keep trying to push against post covid arrangements which are sucking the fun out of work?

[wibblewobbleball]

2019 I landed my dream job. In the city 2/3 days per week, lots of national travel, WFH the rest of the time. Huge team split across the country so used to working over Zoom etc, but had regular opportunities for face to face interaction if we wanted. Lots of access to learning opportunities in my specialism through engagement with specialists, and conferences etc - plus exposure to senior members of staff across the org through routine office working. Covid hit and we all moved to WFH. We are only now just starting to return to the office. About 50% people have opted to come in one or two days per week, the rest now fully WFH and come in once per quarter. There's no national travel as we do everything by Zoom - which means there's no after work socialising which was the norm when you went to visit another office or supplier etc that was a few hours from home. No plans to stand up meetings that were previously compulsory face to face meetings. Whereas before conferences were 10 a penny and you were encouraged to attend to improve knowledge, now only very very senior members of the team go and the rest are discouraged. Those who come to the office do so when it suits them so it's hard to catch people to have a coffee or chew some work related fat/get peer support. Or they're on zoom calls all day so are just on their laptop. Its now next to impossible to get exposure to senior people in the organisation as you don't see them at meetings or around the office. I feel like all of this combined is summing up to a real loss and yet people don't seem to realise it. Yes there's lot of benefits to increased home working, flexibility etc - but we had all that anyway. Now it seems we've lost some key opportunities for learning, for career growth and networking, for building relationships and there being some enjoyment to work. I keep trying to push against this and encourage more of a return to how things were pre-covid, but I'm basically told "this is how it is now". AIBU to keep pushing it? Or should I just find another job?

Find a different job. It suits the senior people because they don't need the networking or peer support in their minds. They clearly don't care about the impact it is having on others and aren't going to change it.

Working from home full time ha given me a work life balance I could only have dreamed of. With young kids, I couldn't socialise anyway, so now I have all of he benefits of my role with one of the guilt and worry that I'm not able to attend drinks / meals / conferences that I couldn't afford and didn't want to go to.

People are in seriously different boats. Not everyone can be pleased all of the time in this post covid world. There's are many, many jobs where being back in the office full time is the norm now - maybe it's time to look for one of those?

If it doesn't suit you, look for a new job. It seems the changes suit others so if you look to change it again, in the end someone will leave if they don't like that either.....

My job was FT WFH pre-pandemic because its a regional job covering huge swathes of the country. We met in a central location once a month for 2 days, including an overnight.

Now we're told we have to go into an office 2 days a week - my nearest office is 180 miles each way.... Thanks a bunch, Jacob Rees-Mogg.

So you're not happy with a work situation and want everyone to change how they work to better suit what you want?

You sound like you'd be great to work with!

This is not what I'm saying at all. I'm asking whether I'm being unrealistic to expect some opportunity there for those of us who want those parts of working life back. Access to more face to face working, access to learning opportunities etc. Or if I should move on to a different org. I'm not saying I want everyone to change to suit me

Previously in my org you would have 100% had that flexibility and working from home FT option if you'd wanted it. Conferences and socialising etc purely optional. Totally get what you're saying though, and I know everyone is in a different boat. So pleased you now have the balance you need though, it's so stressful trying to juggle work and kids isn't it if you don't have that flex isn't it!

That's crazy!!! Surely that kind of distance is an overnight stay?! How can they expect that of you! I do wonder if in a year or so's time things will be a bit softer around some of these enforced "options" for working. They seem so extreme some of them.

I think you're right and i need to start looking!

YANBU. I’m in a similar position, except my job was less flexible than yours was before the pandemic. More flexibility would’ve been lovely but what we’ve ended up with instead is just miserable, except for the people who love love love solely working from home and will act like you’re trying to take away their firstborn child if you say anything less than stellar about any part of the office as it is now.

I’ve also been looking but loads of jobs just say they’re hybrid and it’s hard to tell what that looks like from place to place. Every employer says they’re doing it successfully, but mine says that too and… no.

Let us hope for a future in which employers have sorted this out a bit, those of us who want to spend some time interacting with humans in our job get to do that, and those who bought a cockapoo and moved to John O’Groats don’t ever need to commute again.

They can't possibly replicate it given how many people are choosing the hybrid or WfH situations that they are. It would never be the same. If you can't find ways to tick the boxes you need it probably is best for you to move on. You'll then be going into a company learning the ropes in the new way and won't know their old ways to miss them.

I changed role in January and am still getting to grips with everything being on MS Teams and not meeting people f2f. But in my old job f2f was greatly reduced anyway, it's just how things are now, and we have to adapt.

I hear you. Hybrid working sounds great but we never get everyone in at the same time and when they are in they are on zoom calls. Companies need to wake up to the fact that they have to make being in the office more attractive and change what happens in the office.

Get another job. Don’t try and ruin the WFH situation for everyone else by whining just because it doesn’t suit you.

Interesting that so many are finding the hybrid thing isn't all it's cracked up to be and that it's taking a while to settle in to. I think PP is right who said it'll never be the same and part of this is accepting what that really means! Good point too about it being hard to tell from outside a company what their interpretation of hybrid really feels like in reality - sometimes it better the devil you know!

How am I trying to ruin the WFH situation for others? I WFH about 50% of the time and always have done. I don't begrudge anyone working from home at all.

Does the name of the main arm of the company start with a C?

I keep trying to push against this and encourage more of a return to how things were pre-covid

so you ARE making people WFH an issue. Others don't want it how it was pre covid, but you're trying to make management change back.

There Are plenty of companies insisting people return, go & work for one of them. I'm sorry your job has changed (genuinely!!) but you need to accept it is how it is now or go and get a new job that suits you better.

Find another job. The fact that do many people in your organisation are quite happy to wfh full time or limit the number of days they’re in the office suggests they’re not missing the social scene as much as you are and probably find they’re more productive at home without all the chats across the desk. The new culture isn’t for you, so time to move on.

I know that if I didn't have kids and was younger I'd 100% want to be in the office at least 2 days per week, so I think you should have a look at what else is out there.

I don't think you sounded like you wanted to spoil things for everyone else at all - you signed up for something and things changed, you're allowed to want something different!!

I think that a large proportion of MN prefer their own company and wfh works well for them, and they prefer it to having to socialise with colleagues they don't necessarily get on with.
IRL most people I know prefer a balance of wfh and being in a physical workplace with other people. Not many wfh all the time. I find I can get a lot more work done at home without interruptions from phone calls, people coming in, running errands etc but I much prefer working alongside other people.

@wibblewobbleball I get what you are saying. I agree with you. I think it is particularly worrying for younger members of the organisation.

I get what you are saying OP and don't think you're being unreasonable at all. Not sure why people have to be quite so spiteful and say you're "ruining things" when you're just posing a question.

Those who are quite happy sat at home like to convince themselves they are terribly productive and yet all you ever hear about is people experiencing terrible service everywhere. Corners cut, 'phones not answered, messages not returned etc. etc.

My office has changed immeasurably since covid. I'm looking for a new job (even though I have been here over 10 years and don't want to leave!) simply because the office has changed so much. It is mainly just me and 2 secretaries rattling around a big empty office with everyone else "working from home" - which actually means they're picking their kids up, knocking off early, nipping out for 2 hours to do their shopping....

If management and other senior staff are concerned about the junior members of staff then I’m sure they will address that - otherwise they’ll lose staff and talent.

If lockdown taught us anything it was that there was an inordinate amount of time spent by some doing very little under the guise of networking. A lot of organisations have now got wise to this and staff are working more productively from remote bases as a result.

And if staff are nipping out for 2 hours to do their shopping then you have a management issue, not a wfh issue…

YABU

It sounds like you need to move to a different firm/organisation which you think would be a better fot

Because jobs where you can work largely or wholly remotely are much prized by the clinically vulnerable (especially the 500,000 or so for whom the vaccines don’t work, but who still need to support their households)

We need to maintain diversity of types of role

Its always unsettling when you feel on the wrong end of a change, but the highly vulnerable have had an utterly shite time #forgottenshielders so it’s heartening to read that there are some places where some sort of working life is possible.

I agree a new job is the answer, you could ring up the prospective employer and ask how often people are in etc.

I feel incredibly sorry for the trainees coming in now, they meet the same few people over and over (not necessarily those they’re working with) while most people over about 40 wfh almost constantly. It’s a crap environment in which to learn a trade.

I mind it too. of course you can phone or email people but it’s never going to be the same as being able to ask a casual question of a colleague or learn from observing.