To think the police aren't fit for purpose

[countingsheep5678]

I am not talking about individuals who put their lives on the line, I'm talking about how police constabularies are run up and down the country.

I have experienced three quite horrible anti social incidents in the 'safe' area of Hertfordshire where I live! One a group of boys threatened to throw my toddler in the river and another a man threatened to smash my 'ducking' car in because I asked him to move a bag out of the road!

I want to speak to a local police officer to explain my concerns and ask if there would be more officers on the street and what they are doing about the anti social behaviour in the area. I managed to speak to someone who took all my details and said they'd pass it onto a safer neighbourhood team.

I asked when I would hear back... he couldn't tell me. I asked if I could speak to someone more senior as I wanted some reassurance quite soon, he said I would have to make a complaint if I wanted to speak to someone more senior. I asked if I could have the number of the safer neighbourhood team... they don't have a number. So essentially, unless I call 999 there and then there are no local police officers you can talk and engage with. I was also astounded by the lack of empathy the police officer I spoke to had. When you've been on the receiving end of horrible situations you want to feel reassured. I have got off the phone feeling more concerned about the safety of our neighbourhood than ever.

Just by luck I have seen my local safer neighbourhood police team are holding a surgery tomorrow... but surely we deserve better from the police? We need more open, direct access to them? Am I alone in thinking this?

You are being unreasonable OP. The police are there to dress up and attend pride events. They are there to deal with non-crime hate incidents. They are there to put videos on tik tok. Let’s not be too harsh and expect them to….police.

No you are totally right, it isn't fit for purpose at all. And maybe some of that fault lies with its senior management. But most of it lies with the Government, wider criminal justice system, MSM and to some extent, the general public.

The public do deserve better. The Police Officers also deserve better. But its not going to get better. Its only going to get worse. Chronic underfunding and the current cost of living crisis means all our public services, already under significant strain, are on the verge of taking a nose dive off a cliff. The Police are already picking up the slack for a lot of these services, which in turn is impacting on their performance. I doubt they're going to be able to continue to do that for much longer given the situation the country is in.

Yes it needs change but most of that revolves around funding and pay. The police service has been eroded endlessly and people are leaving in their droves.
The expectations of the public are well beyond what is actually achievable. Recording standards state that whatever the public says has happened has to be investigated until it can be proven otherwise - which means hours and hours of time wasted on low level rubbish. The volume is overwhelming and as I said before the wider criminal justice system is not able to deal. On the flip side policing approach to violent crime, safeguarding and DV (I know some will disagree re DV but every allegation is investigated agin though the volume is off the scale) has improved. Often these types of crimes also take a lot of officer time - I know a crime scene recently that took 17 officers that didn’t even touch the detail of the investigation. Where do these officers come from????
Currently policing can only deal with the most serious matters because there are not enough officers - also we are being sent to ambulance calls, missing people often from care, mental health - self harm/crisis/welfare, social services - welfare for children/police protection. So while it’s not right someone was abusive to you as pervious posters have pointed out you have the service you voted for and listen too closely to the negative propaganda spewed on MSM. Personally I am an officer and I think policing in the UK as it has been known is over and can never be recovered, similarly to nursing, teaching. As I said people are completely blind to how are public services are being destroyed (and the cunning mantra is poor leadership/staff when really unless you have magicians who can magic something from nothing) and will wake up too late.

@HistoryKitty totally agree! When they brought in 'care in the community' without any real impact on the individual, the social services and the public it was catastrophic! I remember living in London and every morning a very unwell man would have to get a bus (I don't know where to)! He was clearly extremely mentally unwell and would scream to the top of his lungs on the bus, I felt sorry for him as he sounded terrified, I felt sorry for the children and other adults on the bus who weren't expecting him as they were terrified! He needed a carer to look after him... I imagine the police had to help him many times! I am so over this Pisa poor government underfunding and fucking everything up! Probably should have worded my original post like that than taking direct aim at the police!

Ah, so if we prioritise those trivial "crimes" (some of which aren't even crimes, but "incidents") that are easy to solve, rather than the ones that actually put fear into people, we can make the clear-up rate look better (on paper at least) and the Superintendent can get his promotion.

I think that it was known as an "administrative detection" back in the mid-2000s. Not sure what the practice is called now.

Yeah, I'm aware of how the state works. Pen-pushers are set targets and they look to achieve those targets, even if that's only technically rather than dealing with the actual problem. Just like "solving" a shortage of hospital beds by wedging five beds into a bay that's only designed and equipped to fit four. Meets the central target and there's no target for people who couldn't be resuscitated because there wasn't room to do it or the equipment wasn't close enough to the nearest socket/oxygen outlet to be plugged in. Just bully whistleblowers and the problem is solved.

Over 30 years ago, I worked as a call handler in a police control room. The thinking was that a civilian (me) doing the job freed up actual coppers, then SOCO was made into a civilian career for the same reason. I spent a lot of my time sending police officers to jobs which involved people with serious mental health issues and/or learning disabilities who were either breaking the law and committing criminal acts or were causing nuisance to others or their families. Proper funding of those services would have had a huge impact on what we had to deal with. Then there were hoax calls, how funny to call the police when you are bored! People killing themselves in gruesome ways, sudden deaths, all have to be attended by the police.
Instead of actually funding the police properly, we have PCSO's ( yes I did comment on that thread too and thought the PCSO was well out of line) , we have underfunded services generally so that impacts on what the police can do, but if everyone was asked to pay an extra £100 per year council tax to fund those services would you? Most would not want to, but just pass the buck and ask those in the public sector to work harder.

I spent all of my working life in the public sector, I worked my socks off and still got bollocked regularly by my customers who thought that I spent my time drinking tea and going to meetings. Sometimes I think there was no understanding that meetings were very much necessary to my job. And as for having a holiday or days off, the thinking was that I just shouldn't do so! The surprise from customers when I told them that I didn't work weekends! Apparently I was supposed to be chained to my desk.
I've never worked in any private enterprise and have no clue what any of those jobs entail, so for me to comment on those who do would be pointless. And often when people joined us who had worked in the private sector, they couldn't cope with the abuse and the level of responsibility that even lowly local authority workers have.
Sorry this has become a rant but generally from my experience, most in the public sector generally are trying their best and are trying to behave reasonably with often ,unreasonable customers . If we, as a society, want a decent service, then we should cough up and vote for those would achieve that.
Hope it makes sense.

@loislovesstewie 💐

@HistoryKitty well said!!
@countingsheep5678 I'm retired now but I spent a lot of my service in child abuse, some of these cases took months to bring right there with weeks and weeks of paperwork.

I was also a community officer for a while and you maybe didn't see me because I was noting crime after crimes after crime and dealing with cases like yours so either looking though intel or out making enquiries.

I have NEVER his behind a desk, I led proactive teams, worked late nearly every evening to the detriment of my family so that I could provide a service to the people that needed it.

The hiding behind desks comment had pissed me off no end. There are decent hardworking officers out there who are bombarded by cuts, at court on days off, working hard to solve crime, taking the work home with them mentally, personally I still wake up at night thinking about the children who suffered horrific abuse, the children who were lost to sids whose parents I had to hold whilst they screamed, and then an hour later I had to attend a shoplifter and deal with that. I won't ever forget these things that I have seen or people that have passed whilst I held bits of their body together to try and stop them bleeding out, the parents I had to tell that their child was gone from some attack, jumping into a harbour to save a drowning teen.
Five years I've been retired and I don't think these scenes will ever leave me.
So no, we are not hiding behind desks!

So why do they waste so much time monitoring twitter?

Because Tory MPs report people on Twitter?

Just want to say I've had two minor burglaries from an outbuilding and both times the police came round,, looked at the scene and second time sent forensics round to do a full sweep for evidence and DNA, and sent a separate officer round to take a statement. They aren't overly hopeful of catching or convicting anyone but I cannot fault their response. I also had two lengthy calls from them over a case of bullying at school where my DS had been threatened. School contacted police who spoke to me and went round to have a chat with the teenage bully. I won't say which force as outing but not in the SE.

@Georgeskitchen

'What the government should be looking at is the courts and the sometimes frankly pathetic sentences being given for some quite nasty and violent crimes.
Also need to put a stop to this ridiculous "none crime hate incident " malarkey.
If someone is offended by something they dont agree with the police should tell them to grow a pair of bollocks, build a bridge and get over themselves instead of pandering to them!!'

I could not agree more with this above!

I think part of the issue with the police (aside from lacking of funding & recruitment) is very low morale because of what a PP posted above. I have seen examples of where a member of public physically assaults a police officer or spits at them and the lack of sentencing/punishment from the CPS is absolutely disgusting. How are these criminals (especially youths of today who know get zero punishment so do whatever they want) meant to have any respect for police when the public can do something as callous as assault a police officer and get next to no punishment, there is no deterrent!

I commend the police and have huge respect for what they do, the majority of them will be doing their best with very little resources.

I agree with OP to an extent. There is flaws in the system. I don't believe individual officers are to blame. Intervention needs to come from higher up and rolled out across the board for consistency rather than one rule for one force & different for others.

Our local town and villages are becoming worse and worse for crime and anti social behaviour and unless the residents do something to sort it like neighbour watch groups out after dark I can't see anything changing .

I unfortunately had dealings with police Scotland yesterday and I have to say they were amazing. My vulnerable teen was missing for 11 hours and 2 officers stayed with me while they liaised with their Sergeant, tech side, boots on the pavement and the constabulary she was eventually found in. There was no judgement, and constant communication. I have them lots of tea and biscuits and my other 2 DCs wanted to watch a film with them. They didn’t eat a proper meal though it was offered.

Thank you!! Although I'm retired and we are one force now it's good to hear you had a good experience. Also I'm sorry that you had such a worrying time

This sums it up perfectly.

I've had a couple of bad experiences of the police, but way more positive ones. As others have said, their hands are tied by stupid amounts of paperwork and the CPS deciding that there is no point in charging. Add into that mix a justice system which sadly isn't seen as a deterrent by many, and what feels like an increasing number of feral idiots who have no fear, and seem to spend their time committing crime, taking drugs, and breeding.

The police have come out to my area a few times over the years for various things, and when I've chatted to them, they will freely admit that they know who did it, but that it's often nigh on impossible to get the CPS to choose to prosecute based on the evidence (this is for things like car crime). It must be so frustrating for the police to do all the work, KNOW who the little scrote is, but then know he'll get away with it.

As for being able to contact your local community team, we have PACT meetings round here that I think are once a month. On the local police force website is an list of the PACT officers and their contact details, including an email. I'm not sure if that's a national thing or just my local force.

Ex husband regularly threatened to kill me hurt me make my life hell sorry call us back if he hits you call back ex is stalking financially abusing and coercive control ahhh but has he hit you? no? Can't do anything until he does just don't answer the phone just ignore what he says/does to the kids just ignore it unless you have proof 🤷 like all the texts saying I'm going to die the vandalism on my car that voukd have been fatal just ignore it all your clearly still alive whats the issue

Have NC'd for this post as am a police officer with over 25 years experience and sadly agree with your frustration as I feel it too.
When I joined we attended every shed break, burglary , theft and public order. However then we could finalise it / write it off with an entry in our pocket book or a paper crime report.
Now everything is computerised and measured. Officers spend hours updating crimes on their laptops, writing files for the CPS - years ago we had admin support staff who would do all those things so we could be out dealing with the public.
The police also pick up all the jobs other agencies can't get to / won't do. A lot of time is spent dealing with people with mental health problems/ attending calls that ambulance should go to/ welfare calls that social services should attend. We do it all.
Morale is rock bottom. However I recently spent the weekend with CID overseeing a serious sexual assault enquiry and everyone worked so hard on it. The victim could not have had a better service so it's unfair to say we don't care because we do. There just aren't enough of us.

From my last two dealings with the police they are as useless as a chocolate fire guard and don't give me its the we lack resources rubbish.

Last one I had some serious anti-social behavior and I had it all on CCTV and recorded they know exactly who it was and what they did. I was in fear for my life they turned up 8 hrs. later. We provided a statement and video evidence and in the end I asked them to leave my home, the officers refused to accept I wanted to press charges and take it further.

Very condescending they contently repeated we know best we will just have a word with the offender. I wanted to purse the matter as it has happened multiple times, it got until the point we were arguing with the police in my own front room and they were refusing to take it further as they knew best. In the end i got a call to say they had closed the case and I found out they never even visited the offender.

This has happened a couple of times, they are not interested. Lazy, lazy, lazy!

shootfromthehip145 - press charges for what? Serious ASB?? What is the actual criminal offence it’s not clear from your post.

The Police come under the Home Office, answerable to the Home Sec, if they really are sat around doing SFA, whose fault is that?

The Home Office (the Department) is the lead government department for crime, the police, drugs policy, immigration and passports, and counter terrorism. It has four priorities: cut crime; reduce immigration; prevent terrorism; and promote growth by keeping the UK safe

Who closed down almost all the public police stations? who cut numbers by 22000 ?

Aside, funny isn't that all the institution's that used to function (of sorts) Railways, Utilities, NHS, Roads... are now all deemed to be "Not Fit for Purpose"

The latest one identified by Truss and Sunak is her Majesties Government.

I always think of the police the way I think of men.

Some (maybe most) police officers are good as individuals, as a collective, shit.

@oldbill93 thanks for your amazing response! I wish people like you were in charge of making the big decisions and could impact how the police is run! It feels like the people that should be in charge never are and the people at the top don't really have a clue! As I've said, there and thousands of amazing people working in the police but as an organisation it is not run in a way that gives credit to its hardworking staff or the public! The fact they got rid of all their admin staff and put it on to the police tells you everything you need to know!

Twelve years of major funding cuts. The majority of officers and staff are committed, decent, hard-working people, who cannot provide the service that they would like to because the service is dying on its arse. I'm not sure why everyone accepts that a desperate funding situation in the NHS has a direct correlation to the problems on the front line but can't make that connection with the police service. It's exactly the same problem.