How should we split the house?

[hidingintheloo]

First time poster here, long time lurker.

I’m going through a divorce with my stbx husband. Our marriage ended with me cheating, it’s a long complicated story where we were actually in an open relationship sexually and I got feelings and thought the grass would be greener (it wasn’t).

We are amicable now in regards to the children etc but can’t agree on how to split the house. He is currently living there but will be moving out soon and I live in rented with the kids. When he moves out he thinks we should pay 50:50 for the mortgage until the house is sold. This would be fine however he thinks I don’t ‘deserve’ anything as I never paid in during our marriage, this was mainly as I was raising our children (as agreed by us both at the time). He guilted me into agreeing to 25% equity and pay 50% of the mortgage until the house is sold. All my friends say I am being a mug and just because I cheated doesn’t mean I don’t deserve my half of the house, and that although I didn’t contribute financially I did look after the children and gave them a good start in life by being home with them. He is now kicking off as I agreed one thing but am now changing my mind. I think I should either pay 25% of the mortgage until sold then get 25% of the equity, or pay 50% of the mortgage and get 50% of the equity.

The other issue is during the end of the marriage I took large sums of money out of our joint account (me working part time) to start my own business (with his permission and support) which ultimately didn’t work out. Should I pay him this back now that we are separated and the business was a flop?

I made a huge mistake and have fucked up both his life and mine, but does that mean I should take less money?

AIBU by wanting my fair share despite my cheating?

I think some people are missing the point, the question was about what was right, not what was legal. Although I suppose some are actually saying that you should care only about what is legal, and not about what is right.

Since you're amicable, just get a legal mediator to rule.

(On the narrow subject of the mortgage, I'd say anything either of you pays on the house while neither is living there should be refunded out of the sale price. Then the remained should be split in whatever proportions are decided. Although if you put the split before a legal mind, it won't be the house proceeds but all assets of either that will be split, and in that case what you each put in will make no difference to your share of assets.)

My exhusband behaved as you have regarding the cheating and spending large amounts of family money that was ultimately lost. We had 3 and 2 year old sons. I hated him for a long time. He destroyed our family unit, he wasted thousands on rubbish, he left us for a 17 year old girl he worked with . He was a selfish cunt. I couldn't have negotiated properly with him. I could barely stand to look at his face. You need to take legal advice, as does he, and let that determine what is fair. You cannot expect your husband to have any respect for you for a very long time.

Both partners slept with other people. The husband is not in any position to comment on his wife's morals.

Starting point is 50:50 of every thing including house, savings and pensions.

Then negotiations are about whether one has greater need or greater earning power.

Worst case for you is likely 50% of the house, but maybe more if you off set it against your entitlement from his pension.

Morals and who did what aren't taken into account for finances in English divorces

@hidingintheloo the morally wrong thing is just hm wanting payback. You will regret it if you don’t get what you’re owed. You providing childcare is of financial value same as if you paid in etc. But, you absolutely should ensure he’s compensated for when he supported you getting started with your business activity,
unless say you were providing free childcare still that enabled him. And now you should be paying half. If you can’t afford it, work out current value/50% equity you should get now, then any further increase you only get the same percentage as the percentage you’re paying. What you did isn’t right but neither is he.

I think this notion of punishing someone in a divorce because of of what they did to bring about the end of the marriage is probably from movies and TV shows. When I went through my divorce I got this a lot from people, and also assuming I'd be punishing him by having the kids more. Madness! Ideally he needs to put aside what's occurred between you, you both put the kids in the centre of your decision making and start at 50/50 and see where you go from there.

Absolutely though, getting him to see your unpaid contributions to the family will be hard, that was my biggest struggle. Our pension statements made it clear who benefitted financially from me staying at home and raising the kids.

Starting point needs to be the children. Ideally, any split of assets would mean that they are adequately housed by both parents, but at the very least they need to be adequately housed by their primary carer.

The advice of ‘get a lawyer’ is a good one but I would suggest before you do that, you really need to read up on how settlements are made and what you can reasonably expect. You really need to avoid a situation where you are forking out thousands in legal fees fighting over a few thousand because neither of you are seeing the bigger picture. you need to have a reasonable understanding of what assets you have, pensions, savings etc etc. between the two of you and then look at your children’s needs and on-going needs, potential earning power, etc. it is complex and you owe it to yourself to get the best possible deal. Divorce is no blame. If morals came in to it, my ex should have walked away with a minus figure!

You need a lawyer.

50/50 on everything. In an open marriage surely both of you had sex outside the marriage so hardly cheating to actually fall for someone

I follow The Legal Queen, a family & divorce lawyer on FB.
Pretty sure she said they start at a 50/50 split then depending on circumstances, kids etc balance it out from there.
Lots of other useful info too.

How much equity is in the property ? If you are claiming benefits now - I assume you are if you have rent to pay and are only working part time, then benefits will stop if you have more than 16k equity in the property. Just something to consider. have you considered an order where you can stay in the house until the children leave education?

Isn't mediation a better and cheaper option than a lawyer. If it's something that might work.

Take the cheating out of it. Financial decisions in a divorce are nothing to do with blame.
If the house is in joint names and the marriage reasonably long lasting (imagine so as children) then a starting point is 50% equity, but often the party in most need is the one who has sacrificed career and bears burden of child care most, so can often be skewed upwards in their favour.

You say nothing of pensions - they can be the biggest pot of all. If he has been paying into a pension all this time and you haven’t, then yoh wre entitled to a portion of that.

As for the money lost in business, that’s more complicated.

You need a lawyer as it seems your husband is trying to guilt you out of your entitlement and you should tell him to get fucked with 25%

How much did you take from joint account? I would deduct this from your share of 50% hpuse

How is it reasonable for them to now want to grab even more?

Grab? Having three children and working part-time whilst your husband works full time isn’t ‘grabbing’ not all contributions are financial and woman have forgot hard to be recognized for their contributions to family life.

Staying at home and raising children mean huge savings in childcare alone.

A divorce settlement isn't supposed to be punitive depending on whose "fault" it was. It's a fair divvying up of marital assets, now the marriage is over, according to needs, earning power, what's best for any children and so on.

Yes, I would say the same if OP were a man and have done. The law isn't there to control people's sexuality.

I agree this is complex and you need professional input. I don't think you necessarily owe him the lost business money - had it succeeded, he would presumably have benefited- but if it's not a massive amount and it would sweeten things a bit, it might be worth considering.

I see no point in punishing yourself for being a terrible human. You have made mistakes, you know it and you're paying the price. I don't think you should have to live in penury your whole life for it; can't see any benefit to anyone in that, including your children.

Oh, and I definitely don't think you should get less equity than you pay for.

You are divorcing because the marriage is over. The reasons it is over are irrelevant to how the marital property will be split. You must get proper legal advice on this, otherwise you and your DC are going to miss out unfairly. Leave your mistake behind - it has nothing to do with the split of the house or other marital assets.

The reason for the divorce and the financial settlement are two entirely separate matters. Neither party gets penalised or rewarded for their bad/good behaviour before a split. That includes your failed business attempt. As a married couple, those decisions and risks are taken jointly.

What does get taken in to account is the decisions made during the course of a marriage, such as you giving up work/your career to look after the children, as well as who will be taking on the main parental responsibility afterwards. You shouldn't be punished for not contributing financially to a household.

It is worth trying to adopt the mindset of separating the two different matters.

I can understand the guilt you feel, but don't devalue yourself to the extent that you have so far.

His solicitor will have told him what you'd get if it went to court, so he's playing Mr Nice Guy for now and playing on your guilt. Don't let him.

Get legal advice as a starting point and don't let him guilt you into anything you dont' want to do.

It sounds as though your dcs will have their main home with you so you providing this till they're through college or university needs to be taken into account under any negotiation.

Your dh is conveniently overlooking the part a SAHM can play in giving dcs a good start in their early years. It's often at the expense of their careers and has a long term impact on their earning power.

You need a SHL - take all their advice - stop any discussion with stbx - most importantly do not agree to anything with him. There are many wise posters on MN - please follow their advice.
I wish I had known about MN when I was in your situation as I feel I've paid a very heavy price. Block everything out except for the needs of your children and fight him every inch and take all you are entitled to.