To think the mandatory logo school items need to stop?

[BagelwithPhiladelphiaz]

Exactly this.

I have just paid £76 for the mandatory PE kit for my DD’s senior school. Including items such as striped rugby socks, which are mandatory for some reason for all PE lessons, rugby or not.

This is before I spend £44 on a blazer, plus the uniform items that she actually needs as well as shoes, bag etc

Next I will order the mandatory items for my primary school children. Cheaper at £14 for a jumper (need a few though to wash, and they also tend to disappear in school despite being named) and £5 for PE t-shirt. This school isn’t so strict about it being mandatory but nearly all the DC have logo ones, so ones who don’t stand out, and they are needed for sports day/school photo day anyway.

None of these items are especially good quality. With secondary, we are restricted to one local supplier and the man who owns the shop is bloody rude, which adds insult to injury.

The blazer, perhaps fair enough I think as they look quite smart, but is £44 really the best price school could find? The other items.. especially the PE kits where we could easily buy very similar items without the logo, are they necessary? Especially as we have a winter coming where some people won’t be able to pay bills.

(The secondary did have a “free second hand clothes rail” for all, at some point, but when I phoned to ask they were very vague about when it would be. I have a friend whose children are on pupil premium- no subsided option for them -
and she managed to find out what day this was but went to find the second hand uniform she found some shabby items that weren’t in her DC’s size, and no PE items.)

I remember parting with £300 on "official" uniform at the designated uniform shop four years ago. Even the bag was logoed. Since then we've tried to get the most wear out of everything. I have bought three bags in four years, and she needs a new one for Y11. There is a particular trousers that she has to wear at school for £25 a pair but we managed to find two pairs for £17 in M&S this year. We just hope the HT doesn't notice. She can just about still squeeze into her old PE kit and other stuff still fits so we haven't had to lay out too much this summer.

Totally agree. Everything at my daughters school has to be brought through the school supplier even shirts as they are a horrible mustard yellow. It's costs £500 to completely kits them out. Ridiculous.

So how do you explain schools on the continent outperforming UK schools despite uniform not being a big factor?

Good standards and expectations can still be in place without expensive uniforms.

The outstanding school locally here has a uniform of black skirt or trousers, black jumper or card, white shirt or polo shirt. No logos visible.

They have rules and high standards. They have gone from requires improvement 10/12 years ago (when they had a stupidly expensive uniform) to outstanding at their last inspection. Despite a simple uniform.

I have ambivalent opinions on uniform and uniform policies

I have no idea why having pink hair or a nose ring, or wearing jeans would have any impact on your ability to learn. I think the idea of uniform is ridiculous in ways, and a dress code (as in don't have your arse on show and no one wants to see your underwear) would suffice.

But, I also think that uniform is a way of ensuring that there is no obvious divide between the haves and have nots. The price of it is fucking ridiculous though.

Some uniforms do the exact opposite of that.

in fact in some areas they are absolutely a tool to put poorer families off applying for certain schools.

When I was at secondary many moons ago, the uniform was a generic black & grey. The logo badges were available from the PTA for a few quid to sew on at home. This kept the cost down for many families, why can't schools do this again?

I've just spent £150 on dd's Yr 7 sports kit alone & another £3 per clothing item for her name to be embroidered on the front. Ordinary sew on labels won't do, you have to have it embroidered on the front. I haven't calculated the price for the whole uniform yet. I think it will come in at around £500 - £600 including trainers, shoes & coat.

YANBU. My DC’s school have just changed the logo for the second time in 3 years! Now everyone is required to buy all the new clothing all over again. And it is of course overpriced.

Agree, but it’s also easy to get good as new 2nd hand high school uniform on Facebook market place. So pay £15 for a blazer instead of over 40 etc

Sod this 'looks smart' business. Children should be comfortable as a starting point.
Being hot, sweaty, uncomfortable or cold does not help learning.
Offices up and down the country cast off the tie and suit years if not decades ago.

A school logo'd jumper or polo shirt at most is all that is needed, if at all. School colours is adequate in most cases (blue top, grey trousers etc).
Primary schools in particular are more into active learning, outside or not sat at desks any more so clothing choices should better reflect this. There is absolutely nothing wrong in kids going dressed in a polo shirt and leggings etc. And as for preparing them for the workplace - news flash this is likely what they will be wearing there too.

Blazers are frankly shit as an item of clothing serving no useful purpose that cannot be done much better by modern items of clothing such as a jacket or a jumper. They should have been left in the 1950's where they belong.
They are shit as a jumper, either too hot or too open, and shit as a jacket as not waterproof or warm enough and still requires a waterproof jacket on top.
A modern fleece or soft shell jacket is a much more intelligent item of outerwear. If kids are going to wear blazers then the teachers damn well better be wearing tweed jackets with leather elbow patches on them.
Parents should be engaging more with the schools when it comes to uniform changes and making their expectations very clear. Much of the rest of the world manages fine with no formal uniform in schools.

there should be a limit of one logoed item plus tie if the school has logoed blazer the jumper and shirt underneath can be generic from anywhere, if no blazer the jumper or sweatshirt have a logo this still provides huge numbers of combinations
if you have

1. either black or grey for trousers /skirts
2. either white or pale blue shirts
3. black, grey, navy, burgundy , red, royal blue or green jumpers that is 28 combinations before you add in ties etc quite enough variety without needing striped or checked shirts or kilts even in a crowded conurbation like London 28 different high schools would still be a pretty large area and all of the above apart from tie and badge can be bought in ASDA or John Lewis or whatever in between no state school should have a PE uniform, just PE shorts/leggings/ joggers a t shirt ( maybe in school or house colour) and a pair of trainers is perfectly adequate teams can be easily done with coloured tabards all school children should wear plainish black flat shoes or trainers there is no need for any rules on bags and coats apart from no offensive words or symbols and that coats need to be suitable for bad weather and bags big enough to hold what you need and the school will not consider any item to be worth more than £50 maybe £70 for children that wear adult sizes regardless of purchase price so any damage or theft is limited to that

how Finland get such good results with no uniform and virtually no homework should perhaps be explained by expensive uniform fanatics

No idea if this will reply properly.

I agree, the idea that 'they all look the same' is there, however there is still a huge inequality with uniform. I teach in a secondary school and despite having a uniform, the people with money are still obvious, with the coats, shoes, bags etc that they have.

This. Make your uniform expensive and you keep out the wrong sort of children parents. Keep out the wrong families and your exam grades stay high and you keep your place in the league tables.

DD's uniform isn't even nice and the single supplier is shockingly awful.

Want to say thanks for the thread though and Mewkin's link. I am going to write to the head and chair of Governors.

I'd limit it to 1 logo item (and give the option of that being a sew-on badge), and ensure that all items can be bought in the supermarket, including PE kit. Unless they're playing in a school team, it should be plain colours.

Ours is jumper only with logo

t shirt ideally but not essential

otherwise I buy from Asda summer dresses or winter skirt /white tops

Yanbu. Our blazer is £88! And, apparently DS needs football boots, indoor PE trainers, outdoor PE trainers, astroturf boots as well as school shoes, and don’t get me started on the cricket accessories. If bought all new it comes to about £500 each year. Unless he loses something or someone nicks his shoe or whatever

I absolutely agree and another trick some of the state secondaries apply around here is by opening up a grammar stream. They change the admissions criteria to offer places to kids who passed the 11+ but didn't get a space. Then they offer spaces to their feeder schools who field 11+ candidates anyway. Then it's siblings & looked after children & finally it'll be local kids. If there are any spaces left after they've filled it with more academically able children.

The school has now effectively become a grammar school by stealth with over two thirds on the grammar stream. Their parents can afford the £500+ uniform because they are more wealthier. They've also spent money on 11+ exam tuition so have disposable cash available. This is how a few schools in my area have locked the "undesirable w/c" children out.

@Inthe90sitwas can the PTA operate a boot box where old sports kit can be donated & sold cheaply?

My DC primary introduced a new, more expensive (logo-ed) uniform as my youngest was leaving.
One of the reasons the headteacher gave was that there was always a lot of lost property and that she thought the children would take greater care of a newer smarter uniform.

I found this absolutely hilarious having seen the enormous smelly box of lost property at the secondary school, which also has a strict uniform. Kids lose or mislay all sorts of stuff, (iPhones anyone?) expensive or not. Having a brand school uniform will not stop that - in fact it will be harder (for smaller kids anyway) to identify their jumper/polo shirt if they are all identical.

Is £500 a year really too much to spend on sending your child to a good school?

We have to use 1 online company too. I absolutely hate them and the quality is awful. DC full uniform is £682 new - plus postage. Every. Single. Thing. Is logo.

i will now only shop in the 2nd hand shop. I refuse to give them any more of my money.

at a state school they should be doing running football netball basketball atheltics cricket etc etc in just one pair of trainers to be inclusive, in a cost of living crisis to suggest anyone needs 5 different pairs of footwear for school is frankly more than ridiculous it is immoral and a dusgrace at any school with any true nod at eco crudentials before they start boasting about recycling they should be reducing waste and reducing the number of items needed otherwise it is greenwashing

You do realise these costs apply to crap schools too.

That only works if there is a good second hand market.

Also doesn’t work when a school changes it’s uniform or logo - as several academy schools I’ve worked in have done on a semi regular basis.

At a time when many families are struggling to choose between eating and heating their home then yes £500 is too much.

Education should be a right not a privilege in a developed society. The cost of school uniform has become a barrier to education, I work in a charity whose pool of beneficiaries would traditionally not struggle to buy uniform but this year we have received far more applications for help and frankly schools need to take a long hard look at themselves. People are really struggling if the choice is between feeding a child and a £35 logo skirt and they choose the skirt something is seriously wrong.