Has the work life balance shifted and I didn't notice?

[forinborin]

A very first world problem, interested in your experiences.

All my friends seem to have an incredible amount of flexibility in their working schedules. For example, if we're meeting for a lunch during the week, they often offer to do something in the afternoon as well (shopping, cinema, some art exhibition or drinks etc). They are able to attend all school events, volunteer somewhere during the office hours, take their parents to medical appointments, have long weekends with leaving early on Friday or starting late on Monday, never mind mid-day gym, or dentist, or vet, or physio appointments.

I am very happy for them (genuinely), but I just can't understand how on earth it is possible. We are roughly at the same level of seniority (and not at the level where our working hours are timetabled), different industries though. All of us working full time, but all my days are usually back to back, I can't even carve out more than 30 mins for lunch without playing tetris with meetings and deadlines, and if I do make some space for personal needs, I have then to work late or super-late, or catch up over the weekend. Posting on mn is pretty much the only leisure thing I can fit in 5 mins here or there that are under occupied for some reason (mainly when travelling between offices).

Am I doing something wrong? Has the working culture just shifted and I am terribly out of date?

Copywriter for a marketing agency actually! I do have the flexibility to fit in GP appointments or put a wash on, etc, but my timesheet billability is meant to be 80-90% so I can’t head out for a walk or swim the way I did when I was freelance – when I’d complete the work in an hour in the morning then spend my day however I wanted, then send it back in the afternoon. (I learned people were less impressed by the work if it was delivered quickly, but also that they’d want that speed all the time.)

I think lockdown and covid in general has changed a lot of peoples way of thinking.
I am now self employed and run my own diary and annual leave.
I am way happier, financially better off and my kids and husband love having me around more.

PR Manager for a law firm

For those in these flexible roles - what do you do?

Marketing director. I'm paid to produce a specific result, within specific timeframes, and to be accountable for the results to the rest of the board.

How and when I get the work done to produce those results is my own responsibility and the company doesn't interfere. I have to be accessible enough to support the team under me or attend the odd meeting, and there are plenty of deadlines, but beyond that my time management is up to me.

I get substantial bonuses and those are performance-linked. If being at my desk in an inflexible way meant a bigger bonus, I'd be doing that. It doesn't, so I'm not.

Same with DH (IT sector). He works for a company with an unlimited PTO policy, which really boils down to "as long as the work gets done, your time is your own." We've both been in these roles since before covid and the flexibility we all had meant that no one had to make wild accommodations during lockdowns. We already had the flexibility to react every time the school closed, and the infrastructure was there for WFH, so covid hit and we all just kept working.

I'm a social work manager. In adult social care. I have specific meetings I need to attend but can be flexible around those and evenings are actually better for getting lots of my paperwork done as fewer interruptions. There are days I'm the manager on call and need to be available and at my computer those days but I do get some say when those are and we regularly swap them about.

DH is senior in IT and gets almost total flexibility to his schedule.

My job is super flexible - currently WFH but could choose to go in if I wanted.

We are open 365 days year/24 hours a day so I can pretty much take a day off and then work more the next. I also don't work for free, so any contact I have with work when I'm not working I take as toil.

Someone sounds annoyed they are in a job that could be dropped at any time because it's pointless. Mine won't. 😊

Someone sounds annoyed they are in a job that could be dropped at any time because it's pointless. Mine won't. 😊

I find it Interesting that you've declared that any job that's super flexible must be pointless.

Define pointless?

Are you like my in laws who really struggle with the concept of WFH?

@Cinnabomb am a CA

My friend is a criminal barrister and works ultra flexibly around court appearances - takes the dog for a walk in the day, long lunch, etc. Barristers are self-employed so she pretty much does what she wants. As it’s such a pointless role, I’m sure you’d be happy to represent yourself in court.

It is not just WFH that has enabled us to reduce the time we spend 'on work', it is technology. I can work so much more productively and quickly through copying, adapting, recycling and reusing documents. I can action things or respond to things via e-mails. I can work early in the morning (when things are quiet in the house) or in the evening when dinner is being cooked. I do not have to waste time commuting. I can send copies of things to multiple occupants, read the latest research and draw on resources at the click of a mouse (no more trailing to a library or sifting through the 'resource cupboard' for me)

It is a little bit like the revolution that took place in domestic work when washing machines, vacuum cleaners and even microwaves were invented, or the even more profound change that came with the mechanisation of factory work. Suddenly people had more time (and in some cases, they were automated out of work).

We are only just coming to terms with how much technology can change our working patterns. I am fortunate enough to work in a role where I can use all sorts of IT to work much more quickly. I am sure that things will catch up, and we will be expected to do even more in our working time, but now, for the time being, it is bliss. Well, it is bliss for people who work in certain jobs.

If you're able to take half a day off regularly with no one at your job noticing like ops friends, then you're not needed and if redundancies come around, those jobs are the first to go.

I wfh too. But I am busy all day, as I said in my first post. I love wfh, it's so much easier. But taking off half a day to go to the gym, cinema and lunches while getting paid isn't right and I'd bet if your colleagues were doing that leaving you working, you'd be pissed off with them.

If you're able to take half a day off regularly with no one at your job noticing like ops friends, then you're not needed and if redundancies come around, those jobs are the first to go.

Maybe read some of the posts people have put on here explaining how they make flexible working work for them. Not all jobs are the same, that's the bit you seem to be missing.

As I've mentioned, during term time my flexibility is quite limited as I have to teach my timetable, attend meetings, meet students etc. I have one research day a week where I'm not expected to be contactable so how I make that day work is up to me. It's the same out of term time, during August all meeting have been cancelled and I have complete control of my diary and work. I know what I need to do and it gets done.

What difference does it make if I mark assignments at 2pm or 8pm? Take today for example, I worked 8.00am -1pm then took DS out for a bike ride, had some lunch then helped DS with some Lego. I then returned to work between 5pm -8.30pm.
I've done over my contracted hours (which I do regularly), I'm getting my work done to a high standard so why would I be the first in line for redundancy?

I wfh too. But I am busy all day, as I said in my first post. I love wfh, it's so much easier. But taking off half a day to go to the gym, cinema and lunches while getting paid isn't right and I'd bet if your colleagues were doing that leaving you working, you'd be pissed off with them.

There two different scenarios here. Most people on this thread are t talking about taking half a day off. They're talking about working flexibly. They're still doing their contracted hours, just outside of the 9-5

If someone is genuinely not working the hours they are being paid for then that is a disciplinary issue.

I can't see that it makes a difference when you mark your assignments, but there must be jobs / circumstances where people working in the evening and not in the daytime inconveniences other colleagues/projects?

I am a teacher and very often have to leave early to see to my own kids, then make up the time eg from 9-11pm. But I am mindful that any emails or assignments I send then are scheduled not to go until the next morning.

I can't see that it makes a difference when you mark your assignments, but there must be jobs / circumstances where people working in the evening and not in the daytime inconveniences other colleagues/projects?

Which is why it's not an everyday occurrence. I'm capable of managing my diary in a professional manner.

This level of flexibility doesn't work for every job or all of the time.

I was objecting to the PP who decided certain jobs were pointless because they had quite a bit of flexibility.

But the op seemed to be meaning taking half a day off for no reason, not working flexibly. Starting late on Monday, finish early on Friday. Maybe their jobs allow that, but if they don't then that's wrong which is what I'm getting at. And it seems to be more what op is meaning, they just stop working and bugger off to do whatever they want as no one knows.

Big difference to flexible hours, which I also have and many do. Still doing your hours though, not getting paid for them while in the gym and not on annual leave.

Your friends might be working for the council or NHS.

I agree. That sums it up for me. I’m paid to deliver, not do a certain number of hours. How and when I do that is largely up to me.

But as many of us have said, we’re not paid for the hours, we’re paid for what we deliver / the outputs

Dh might seem like this as he goes to the gym, swims etc most days. But like pp he does 6 am calls and 9 pm calls as he works in a global team.

My role is very flexible but my whole team sit in another time zone so I'm mainly available in the evenings.

I don't go out for lunches or the gym etc though, I use that time to clean my house, put a load of washing on etc.

I will never go back to an office based role. Ever. I've been WFH for 10+ gradually reducing how often I go into an office and I'm now down to about 4 times a year with my getting to decide when to go in.

@Fhuukccssghkkb yes this!! ^

im a naturally very fast paced person. I have always been incredibly focused and get a huge amount of work done within the first 4-5 hours of a work day. By 2pm I’m absolutely good for nothing as I have done a very large amount of work in that time and I’m completely spent…

comparing that to colleagues who I’ve sat next to over the years who honestly it’s painful to watch how slow they work. They are often the ones who come in first and leave last. They’ve always fascinated me as I can’t fathom how they can make tasks drag out for so long, In comparison to what I do in the first half of a day.

i used to feel bad about being completely spent by 2pm every day but quickly realised It didn’t matter; I was getting regular promotions, exceed ratings on annual bonus etc. it made me realise its absolutely not about how many hours you put in, it’s all about the output and Positive impact on the organisation and that is what I’m being paid for, rather than being a bum on a seat for 8 hours a day

I'm in a well paid role doing 5 days over 4. I find have a minute to scratch my arse in those 4 days. Fridays, however

But as many of us have said, we’re not paid for the hours, we’re paid for what we deliver / the outputs

Also an excellent point.