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AIBU?

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Original poster

UC sanctions should be temporarily lifted

275 replies

Needachangee · 13/08/2022 13:37

NC as been discussing with a friend who uses MN

I am on UC currently but have been sanctioned for missing appointments as my mum was in hospital. I had a single piece of toast yesterday, I just started my period, it’s 30 degrees and I have 3 potatoes and half a tin of beans to last until Monday. That’s when I can apply for a hardship payment that I might not even receive and if I do it won’t come through till Tuesday.

AIBU to think sanctions should be lifted temporarily with the cost of living crisis. I understand that there has to be consequences and incentives to make people attend the job centre but the alternative is people like myself are close to starving. The only positive outlook I have is I’m starting work in September. Food banks are scarce as everyone is struggling to buy their own shops let alone donate.

The country is on its knees so I know there can’t be an increase in UC and as I say I will be earning myself soon enough but as I’ve been sanctioned the most I will get is £100 if I’m accepted for a hardship payment to see me through till payday in September. I think sanctions should be banned temporarily as a help to people like the increase during lockdown.

OP posts:
QueenieL1 · 13/08/2022 17:16

@Friars23 Yes, this is what is so frightening that people who are really not capable of work are being threatened.

AndreaC74 · 13/08/2022 17:16

Confusedcactus · 13/08/2022 17:03

"The claimant has the right to appeal and in my experience, the minute mental health is mentioned, whether that is supported with a med cert or not, the decision gets overturned."

I used to work in a Jobcentre with UC customers and can absolutely back what @Athenajm80 said. In the 8 months leading up to Covid, we would have to approach our manager after someone had missed 3 appointments, who would then scour the entire claim for any note on 'MH'. If found, a referral to a decision maker to consider sanction wouldn't even be processed.

There were plenty of people who struggled with their MH, (as the majority of the population sadly will at some point), but plenty who new how to play the system. Plenty who would walk up to the door and say "I got mental health" or "I'm vulnerable" because they knew they'd receive special treatment, often above those who needed it more.

People are forgetting that Jobcentres also act as a middle ground to signpost those in need to vital services. And sanctions prevent those who are genuinely vulnerable from fully disengaging with those services and help, and from society in general. This attitude of scrap the sanction helps no one.

I personally know someone with quite severe and diagnosed MH issues (which DWP know about), he was sanctioned, the phone broke, he didn't access some sort of database because the one time password wasn't being received at the phone (it was a new procedure) he didn't know he had too.
Sanctioned for 3 months.

All its done is make his MH worse and its also meant the private counselling he was paying for has had to stop.

Knock on effect is his mum who works fulltime but on a low wage, now is struggling to feed and cloth him.

Its a very cruel policy.

ImWell · 13/08/2022 17:19

Lalala1 · 13/08/2022 17:15

@ImWell
How do you know you will never be able to claim universal credit? Can you see into the future? I understand your saying you wouldn't be entitled to claim now if you were made unemployed I'm guessing it's because you have savings over the amount disregarded, but you don't know what could happen in future to say that you will never be able to claim universal credit

Some people genuinely don’t want to accept someone at their word, do they?

Fine, as you are determined to dig, and have asked politely I’ll say and then name-change.

We have over £5m in investments, and about the same again in our homes, plus life assurance, redundancy insurance, and extremely good health insurance. I am also not British, and if utter disaster occurred would return “home.”

There is no conceivable route that leads to me being able to claim UC in the UK.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 13/08/2022 17:20

How offensive, comparing people in hugely responsible jobs with people receiving benefits.

There are people claiming PIP who are in employment positions with great responsibilities attached to them.

AndreaC74 · 13/08/2022 17:22

roarfeckingroarr · 13/08/2022 17:07

@AndreaC74 the bosses are employed in the private sector and deemed to be worth it. What have they to do with people who don't work expecting taxpayers' money for nothing?

Lol i'm a tax payer, my money is going directly into the pockets of people who clearly aren't worth a 1/10th of what they on (specifically water companies)

They are in a rigged private sector market (lets foregt about the fact its only in the PS because some Tory Govt gave them away) with zero competition, where what you are deemed to be worth is decided upon by other people equally expecting a large bonus.

All i'm saying that if you think handouts are bad for society, then pls apply that equally.

roarfeckingroarr · 13/08/2022 17:24

@AndreaC74 you can't compare private sector pay to taxpayers' money

Preeeettyprettygood · 13/08/2022 17:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Confusedcactus · 13/08/2022 17:25

@AndreaC74 I'm sorry for what happened to the person you know.
However, 3 months is a higher-level sanction that can only be applied after other, lower levels of sanction have been applied, but the customer still continues not to engage. It just is not possible that it would ever be applied for a one time event, as you say, where the phone broke etc. It would never in a lifetime be approved by a manager or decision maker. Nor would most Work Coaches dare to file for a sanction against someone with MH issues in the first place.

Also if a customer rings the service/ call centre, even if they don't pass security and are unable to discuss their claim, there would still be a record on the claim that they'd tried ringing to say they couldn't make the appointment- clearly for the WC to see.

It's very easy for people to quote these stories of people they know, but 99/100 there's part of the story you havent been told.

DonnaBanana · 13/08/2022 17:26

This is such a sad story and a sad picture of our country. We need some sort of universal income (which tapers down to zero the more you earn) to at least let everyone live the most basic existence without worry and not have only a slice of toast to last the weekend!

AndreaC74 · 13/08/2022 17:27

How offensive, comparing people in hugely responsible jobs with people receiving benefits

You mean the CEO's of water companies? Hose pipe ban on us because they allow 3billion litres to leak away... No investment in sewage treatment? no problem, pump shit into rivers and the sea...

Hugely responsible? not!

The Tories will thankfully be gone soon and perhaps the attitude that would see the poor in the work house gone too.

Preeeettyprettygood · 13/08/2022 17:27

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Friars23 · 13/08/2022 17:29

QueenieL1 · 13/08/2022 17:16

@Friars23 Yes, this is what is so frightening that people who are really not capable of work are being threatened.

Yes, so agree. Also I realise the way I wrote it made it sound like not insignificant numbers being wrongly put in the possible capable for looking for work in the near to middle future only happened under the Coalition government, it still is happening. And regardless even that group is classed as too sick/disabled to work currently even if they may possibly be in some potential future.

I also think the Conservatives reducing the money to the same as jobseekers for that second ESA group is massively unreasonable.

LakieLady · 13/08/2022 17:30

munchiemarie · 13/08/2022 14:50

I'm a bit confused. Did you only miss 1 appointment?

I thought you weren't usually sanctioned for missing just 1.

I'm surprised, too. I've worked in welfare rights for 15 years and none of my UC clients have been sanctioned for missing an appointment. Ime, they seem a lot more flexible than they used to be on JSA. Mind you, work coaches seem to have an awful lot of discretion, and maybe you've been unlucky enough to get one who's a bit of a jobsworth.

OP, have you explained, via your journal, that you had a family emergency and had to accompany your mum to hospital? If not, I'd do that, and ask them to reconsider. If yu have a good reason for missing an appointment (and this seems like a good reason to me), they shouldn't impose a sanction. The actual wording in the regulations is "without good cause".

And when you're posting on your journal, you can ask for a food bank referral at the same time.

AndreaC74 · 13/08/2022 17:30

Confusedcactus · 13/08/2022 17:25

@AndreaC74 I'm sorry for what happened to the person you know.
However, 3 months is a higher-level sanction that can only be applied after other, lower levels of sanction have been applied, but the customer still continues not to engage. It just is not possible that it would ever be applied for a one time event, as you say, where the phone broke etc. It would never in a lifetime be approved by a manager or decision maker. Nor would most Work Coaches dare to file for a sanction against someone with MH issues in the first place.

Also if a customer rings the service/ call centre, even if they don't pass security and are unable to discuss their claim, there would still be a record on the claim that they'd tried ringing to say they couldn't make the appointment- clearly for the WC to see.

It's very easy for people to quote these stories of people they know, but 99/100 there's part of the story you havent been told.

Well, i ve known him since he was 7 yo.

Yes accept there may be more but the bottom line is he is vulnerable and we often worry for his MH i.e self harm or worse.

When he gets a job, he is a bloody hard worker, with a great attitude but the jobs are often seasonal or short term contracts & he can lose it!

I really don't see what sanctions achieve.

InTheFridge · 13/08/2022 17:31

Some of the replies on this thread are outrageous!

This women has no food. Bottom line, no food. It shouldn't be allowed.

berksandbeyond · 13/08/2022 17:34

No sorry I don't believe sanctions should be lifted.
There needs to be some level of personal responsibility involved for people claiming benefits.

Mally100 · 13/08/2022 17:35

InTheFridge · 13/08/2022 17:31

Some of the replies on this thread are outrageous!

This women has no food. Bottom line, no food. It shouldn't be allowed.

I know! I know absolutely nothing about UC (fortunately) but I would never, ever begrudge a person who has no food. I hope you manage to get sorted with something till Tuesday op. Whatever the reasons, nobody should starve.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 13/08/2022 17:35

InTheFridge · 13/08/2022 17:31

Some of the replies on this thread are outrageous!

This women has no food. Bottom line, no food. It shouldn't be allowed.

And it wouldn't be happening had she attended the appointments. Bottom line is, there's no point blaming the government when this is a consequence of her actions. Appointments are to be taken seriously. Is it that hard for people to honestly take some responsibility for themselves?
If OP has no food, she needs to go to a food bank.

Ariela · 13/08/2022 17:35

Ithinkthatisenoughnowthanks · 13/08/2022 16:14

An awful lot of people would not be entitled to a penny if they were to become unemployed

If that were the case, they would have £16k or.more in the bank. Perhaps use your savings before expecting handouts?!

May not be savings. Could be they were self employed for many years, never claimed a penny in benefits and yet with insufficient earnings to pay NI. No NI contributions = no benefits = no pension.

Nothappyatwork · 13/08/2022 17:42

Work coaches often arent DWP employees with adequate training or knowledge. One large Scottish call centre company won a contract to deliver first line support

Nothappyatwork · 13/08/2022 17:42

Ariela · 13/08/2022 17:35

May not be savings. Could be they were self employed for many years, never claimed a penny in benefits and yet with insufficient earnings to pay NI. No NI contributions = no benefits = no pension.

Show quote history

They would simply be moved on to non-contributary benefits such as pension credits

LakieLady · 13/08/2022 17:43

AndreaC74 · 13/08/2022 17:16

I personally know someone with quite severe and diagnosed MH issues (which DWP know about), he was sanctioned, the phone broke, he didn't access some sort of database because the one time password wasn't being received at the phone (it was a new procedure) he didn't know he had too.
Sanctioned for 3 months.

All its done is make his MH worse and its also meant the private counselling he was paying for has had to stop.

Knock on effect is his mum who works fulltime but on a low wage, now is struggling to feed and cloth him.

Its a very cruel policy.

Show quote history

That's shocking, @AndreaC74 . If he was a client of mine, I'd be supporting him to put in a complaint.

He should submit a FIT note, and they should then stop or reduce the frequency of appointments.

Notjustanymum · 13/08/2022 17:46

I’m so sorry you’re getting so many negative comments, OP.
UC is awful, at one point during lockdown both of my DC were on it ( one still is) and the hoops they expect people to jump through are ridiculous, especially if those people have MH issues.
I hope life improves for you when you start working, but in the meantime is there anything you have, but don’t want any more, that you could sell on FB Marketplace, for example? I’ve sold kitchen gadgets in the past like a stainless steel wok for £50.00 and other items like small items of furniture I no longer need for between £10 and £80. It can be quick, too, and you can ask for the item to be collected so the buyer hands you the cash…

AndreaC74 · 13/08/2022 19:12

LakieLady · 13/08/2022 17:43

That's shocking, @AndreaC74 . If he was a client of mine, I'd be supporting him to put in a complaint.

He should submit a FIT note, and they should then stop or reduce the frequency of appointments.

Show quote history

Ah thankyou @LakieLady he is a great lad and really tries really hard to improve himself, his self esteem is through the floor though and he sees this has just another rejection/reason to dislike himself.

Many people (on here) don't have a clue how people live, often in very chaotic lives, just the usually "You should treat UC like a job" BS.

What is a FIT note? I'll have a google too.

Florenz · 13/08/2022 19:39

People need to stop living chaotic lives if they want to get a job and get off benefits.