To detest the term 'squeezed middle'

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And how it's being used on here to forecast that the poor high earners will be worse off than anyone else over the next few years?

It's absolutely not true, for one. The worst off will be the worst off.

I grew up in poverty. My kids are middle class. I know the gulf that exists between the two, firsthand, and secondhand from working with kids in inner London for twelve years.

The squeezed middle will be ok. So can we stop pretending that people who earn over £50k a year are on the brink of destitution? It's really demeaning to those who survive on a lot less.

Who is, then?

The median full time salary in the uk is about 30k.

Teacher basic pay scale goes 25-35k and i think band 5 nurse scale is similar.

I think thats middle earning

I meant rather that they were not middle class jobs. I thought the term "squeezed middle" referred to middle class people in well paying jobs who like to pretend that they're poor.

I am sure a lot of them do refer to themselves as squeezed middle too - apparet high earners think they earn about average because tgey mux with other high earners.
I think the term was meant to mean middle earners so not high earners or low earners but the middle has a range.

Why not? Nurses earn a bit more than the median wage, but not enough more that they should be excluded from the category. What’s your objection?

Interesting you think there’s not much difference between a family on 15k and a family on 50k
assuming both single parents with 2 children working and paying childcare and both renting flats in London, the family earning 15K would have 48,540 actually in their pocket a year after UC and the family earning 50K would have 37,556 in their pocket after tax plus possibly child benefit. The 15K family would be better off and that is where the squeezed middle idea comes from.

Families who are enduring significant poverty tend to fall into a few categories, one is those not entitled to benefits eg asylum seekers and refugees, another low income families who own houses especially with mortgages for whom UC is far less generous and another is those who have high debt for a wide variety of reasons meaning that they are caught in a difficult trap. Another group is those who just skim the UC level not qualifying for benefit but who are single parent families or where one parent is not working, these families will be considerably less well off than those earning less but subsidised by UC.

Basically we have a large group of people, some of whom are entitled to benefit and some who are not who will be in poverty of the eat or heat type in the next year and at the moment more and more people are falling into that group. It is inevitable you will have resentments that the family who earn 15k but actually have more money will receive additional help while the family next door who earn 50k but take home considerably less than the 15K family won’t be.

Of course the worse off are the worse off but anyone cutting back means less money for services and non essentials. These services employ staff who really are the worse off of the worse off because many are not working at a professional wage level.

People stopping spending means far more people lose their jobs, then repossessions happen.

Means testing sound fairer but it costs so much to implement it really is a false economy,

Most people on £50k have worked (and do work) hard to be there. I’m one of them, and I didn’t finish work until 11pm tonight.

Of course there are hardworking people at all levels, but it isn’t as if I just magically arrived at my salary level. It has taken years of work, and we still can’t afford to start a family in London.

I grew up poor and have been poor as an adult. I'm now doing ok so can speak from both sides.l I think.

I never moan as it would be crass. However, in the last 5-10 years successive governments have made 2nd home ownership significantly more expensive by stripping away most forms of tax relief, unless the house is owned via a ltd company. This disproportionately hits the middle.

Dividends are now taxed at ridiculous levels.

The contracting market has been literally decimated.

Child benefit has been updated.

Student loans are based on parental income.

I take it all on the chin really but if you do any or all of the above, the additional burden is significant. Yet those on the next level of wealth will invariably have other means of dodging their tax responsibilities.

So yes, whilst us in the middle are not going to starve, it's true that were always the ones to get squeezed as it's so easy to do so.

Yep, cry me a river 😂

The problem with an attitude like that though is that it can just be sent right back at the people complaining that they are struggling.

”You’re amused that I’m struggling, while you can’t afford to feed your children? Do you want me to call you a whaaambulance?”

If you think people should be helped out, it’s not a great idea to then mock others just because they are struggling a bit less.

Dear God, not you again 🤦

Love the Whaaambulance though 😂

‘Squeezed middle’ here (on £50k so no benefits but not a high earner in London, which is where my industry is based). Please explain what I can cut back on:
Income (single parent, no financial support): £3,200pcm with child benefit
Mortgage + service charge + council tax: £2k
Travelcard for work (no car): £130
Bills [Fast Broadband (for when wfh two days pw) + TV licence + prescriptions + water + insurance (required for mortgage)]: £120
Private medical treatment (without which I cannot work): £300
After school childcare: £250
Leaves £400 for energy and living costs.
On a pre-pay meter for gas and electricity. Non payment means no fridge, lights etc. Currently paying £100pcm for gas and electricity and live very frugally. If energy costs go up to £400pcm then what do I cut back to enable myself to put food on the table?

Even if didn’t need medical treatment, the increase in bills would leave £300pcm for everything else, shoes and clothes for an ever growing child, food, toiletries, cleaning products. I do that at the moment and it’s extremely hard, and prices going up all the time terrifies me. I worked very hard to get my qualifications and experience, and buy a house (grew up in social housing), and I’m seeing a very real potential for losing it all.

Yes this is very true.

Of course they will to pay for the benifits others aren’t entitled to.

I relate a lot to this "squeezed middle"... the issue is a lifestyle (mainly my mortgage) has been built on certain salaries. Even with some safety net which was sensible at the time is now looking like we will be living beyond our means when energy bills go up again.

I'm gutted I'm probably going to have to cut maternity leave with my last baby short because of it. Childcare keeps going up, we need 2 cars as we live rurally and work in opposite directions about 40 minutes each way (hence our location so we could get home around the same time to still see each other)...

I know I'm lucky that I'm in a position where I'm likely to have access to a good amount of credit so can take out a loan if I need to but it just adds to the crippling debt which feels like a black hole we won't be out if for a very long time.

People will struggle in almost every situation. I worry a lot about how we will cope.

I do wonder how much 'disposable' income someone on £75 k who is in 'fuel poverty' (by definition) has after paying out bills.

I think that looking at disposable income after housing costs is interesting. Once you have paid your bills such as housing costs, childcare costs, energy costs....how much money have you got left to buy food, clothing, essential items....before you start to look at non essential spending.

I think there are many households who have such high housing costs and energy costs that there is little to spend on other items after they have gone. And plenty of households who have plenty.

There are households who are stretched on housing costs (and other costs) that are on what are median household incomes who are going to find it hard with the increased energy costs - and who don't qualify for support.

It's hard if you are a single person, on a median income, who still has to pay their mortgage or rent, who has little disposable income left, and who is going to face massive hikes in energy costs.

The cost of housing is a lot in this country. It won't take much of an increase in energy costs to squeeze a lot of people who think they are doing ok.

What @AtomicBlondeRose said.

I am much worse off now financially in a marriage with both of us earning than I ever was as a single parent and a SAHM. When I was a single parent I got tax credits, housing benefit, lower tax rate. Now we earn just enough not to be entitled to anything but all our bills are going up and we are really struggling. Of course we are not struggling as much as someone using food banks. But we are still struggling.

This.

Absolutely this.

My God, the Tories are playing a blinder pitting the lower socio-economic groups in society against each other.

The 'middle class' as you call them (who are mainly working class) have worked dam hard to achieve decent salaries and afford a few luxuries in life. They pay their taxes and are entitled to very little help.

The distain shown on here for people having cars on HP or mortgages of £x per month is a disgrace. It's not a race to the bottom, OP and the like should level their venom at the bankers and those at the top of the chain claiming everything (e.g. MP expenses) and avoiding taxation.

The working middle are the most screwed group in society, they put a lot in and don't get much out.

The £400 will be paid on the electric so if you have electric you’ll still get regardless of whether you use it for heating or not, that’s why it’s being paid against electric rather than gas. My dad has oil the same as you

Well i could say the same about people on a lower income and benefits.
But you can thank the middle and higher tax payers for your benefits.

We once went to a financial charity for help when we were in the thick of it. We owned an apartment that we had to move out of because of the cost of commuting and the fact that there were 5 of us. We would have been seen as well off in our area because there’s high unemployment and we both had jobs, we were renting in a decent estate, had a car. childcare took my whole wage and more. The charity looked at our outgoings and said we were spending below the recommended minimum amount to spend on food and that our clothing and entertainment (we got rid of tv and got hand me downs for clothes) weren’t sustainable and we needed to change something and sell the apartment. Like we hadn’t thought of that!! We just looked at her and she apologised. Those few years we spent most months without heating and with the kids getting sick. We went days on beans on toast, pasta and cheese, cereal, we paid our rent monthly but couldn’t regularly pay mortgage and were threatened with them taking the property but we’d still have to pay it back. and in the meantime you’ve people thinking you’re fine as you sleepwalk through worry after worry