To detest the term 'squeezed middle'

[unicormb]

And how it's being used on here to forecast that the poor high earners will be worse off than anyone else over the next few years?

It's absolutely not true, for one. The worst off will be the worst off.

I grew up in poverty. My kids are middle class. I know the gulf that exists between the two, firsthand, and secondhand from working with kids in inner London for twelve years.

The squeezed middle will be ok. So can we stop pretending that people who earn over £50k a year are on the brink of destitution? It's really demeaning to those who survive on a lot less.

@cakeorwine I'm going to read this report later.

One of the local anti poverty groups locally to me is a CIC - they frequently do reports like this and then go about advertising for an experienced Marketing Manager on NMW, fail to recruit and then change it to a Marketing Apprentice vacancy who must have experience for £7 per hour.

It makes me so cross that an anti poverty CIC has the audacity to pay their staff so poorly. * *

* *

‘I worked hard at school. Did the right thing. Delayed having children until I had a good career, marriage, a lovely home and significant savings.’

You wilfully misread my post. I clearly didn’t mean you when talking about people making deliberate choices which place them in dire poverty. If you suffered bereavements, divorce and have kids with SEN despite doing all of the ‘right’ things then my post clearly wasn’t about you.

Like it or not there is a sizeable number of people who make shit decisions, end up in dire straights and then resent others for having anything so spend their time trying to pull them down like crabs in a bucket.

@bellac11 i am agreeing with you as I felt pp suggestion that social services would just sort it out was incorrect.

I merely suggested that if you felt it was a safeguarding concern and rang it through not much would happen unless there were other issues.

Im not sure why you think i am disagreeing with you. Im saying the exact same thing.

People on prepayment meters can have a higher tariff than people who are not on prepayment meters if they are both on the price cap

I am on prepayment variable at 28p.
Similar use to @cakeorwine and yes, equally confused at this point. Before yes, people on some dd were paying usually less but oftentimes it wasn't AS bad as some think. At this point I pay the least from people around me!

You were being very dismissive about people struggling, despite the fact that the “worst off” that you were upset for are still so much better-off than millions of others.

It was a very foolish post.

Sorry 29p

Sure you did

To be fair, the child on the highest rates is renewed every 3 years. It is never easy sailing doing renewals and they could literally decide they are no longer disabled, everything stops and it takes months to appeal. They can also reassess anytime they fancy. It isnt overly secure.

@whumpthereitis

There are people actually starving in this country. Others homeless, some will die of cold this winter.

I'm not sure why you would think that this isn't as bad as somehow as in some other countries. How can the bar go lower than that?

Probably my age/brain fog

However in terms of actual safeguarding concerns, yes someone would act immediately if necessary

If a school for example rang in to say that a child had disclosed to them that their parent had abused them, it would have to be dealt with that day to ensure the child was safeguarded.

However a lack of beds is not urgent/wouldnt meet threshold unless its tied in with other issues that cause concern would not be a safeguarding issue

Jesus. You can do everything "right" and life can still shit on you.

You really have no clue do you? How about in Afghanistan where women are literally selling their daughters to try to keep the others alive.

Seriously, you have no idea how good you have it being “poor” in the UK.

Your household income is £100k OP. Why are you sneering at people on less? You clearly don’t have a clue.

It can go considerably lower than that. It is in fact considerably lower than that in the lived experience of millions (at least) worldwide. The UK does not even crack the top 100 of the most poverty stricken worldwide. The UK may not have the most effective safety net, but it does in fact have a safety net. People can access clean water. The healthcare system may not be the best, but it does exist. People in the UK do not live in a country ripped apart by civil war. I don’t ‘think’ that the situation isn’t as bad, I know it isn’t as bad.

And you think it’s the ‘squeezed middle’ that lacks perspective.

Thankfully very few of us in this country will have to experience this, unless of course you have come from a country like that and experienced it already

But we are not Afghanistan or any country like that. We are a first world, developed country with huge wealth. We are/were one of the richest countries in the world so people shouldnt need to worry about whether they can afford housing and fuel/food as basics

So no, the average person on benefits who is cold and accesses food parcels is not experiencing the deprivation of someone in a tent in Syria, with injuries, trauma from war and no end in sight but Im not sure we compare ourselves to that to make a point do we?

Well why not? It’s as simple as that, isn’t it? The squeezed middle just need to trade the Audi in for a Ford, those on less just need to work a little bit harder.

Equally reductive statements.

Its probably better to compare situations like that to other similar countries. The poor here are better off than those in the US for example, that is clear.

We have family in Spain, they are amazed at the safety net here and the benefits here for example so there are places that are worse off

And yet people who make this argument then have the effrontery to tell people on the next rung up that they have no right to complain because there are others worse off.

It’s very hypocritical.

I agree with you.

I just dont think that the position of being better than some war torn country is a good measure of 'doing well'.

I think its helpful for everyone, me included, to bear in mind there are people much worse off though.

I agree, we ought not to compare ourselves with empoverished war-torn countries.

*And yet people who make this argument then have the effrontery to tell people on the next rung up that they have no right to complain because there are others worse off.

It’s very hypocritical.*

Yep. In reality everyone is entitled to complain about their own situation, or else no one can.

I'm not sneering. I'm saying that the people in the middle are in the middle because they're not the worst off, that's why they're in the middle. And no matter how bad it gets, they'll still be able to eat.

I know how fortunate my family are, and I use my time and expertise to try and help people with next to nothing. I am more concerned in helping a child with no bed to sleep on than a child who can't have riding lessons any more.

There is a category of people, who earn above minimum wage and don't qualify for any help. After paying their bills they have a few hundred pounds left. They would spend it on either holidays, or restaurants, or clothes, or anything non essential but nice. Now, imagine their bills go up by a few hundred a month. Yes, they will pay it. But, they will not give their money to any other businesses, no take aways, no holidays, no clothes, no entertainment venues. They don't make a choice between heating and eating, but they would be sqeezed to pay ALL their money for necessities. Do you realise the knock on effect on the other businesses if MILLIONS of families stop paying the hospitality industry? The workers of this industry will loose their jobs, and since lots of them earn very modest salaries, they will be pushed into poverty. Do you not realise that? 😒

True. You could absolutely compare it to places closer to home as it were. It’s just the general point that those saying the squeezed middle have no valid complaint, would be considered comparatively rich themselves put into any worldwide context. There’s no acknowledgement of that from those attacking others for having no perspective.

I come from a country that descended into economic collapse and civil war during my childhood, and as a result doesn’t actually exist any more. I could make the same argument as OP, that those in poverty here have nothing to complain about. They’re not dodging bombs, so what’s the issue?

but I won’t, because it’s a dumb statement. It’s not, or shouldn’t be, a race to the bottom. People are still struggling, even though others may have it worse. There’s no reason to be spiteful and mocking because someone struggling may not be struggling as much as you.