To detest the term 'squeezed middle'

[unicormb]

And how it's being used on here to forecast that the poor high earners will be worse off than anyone else over the next few years?

It's absolutely not true, for one. The worst off will be the worst off.

I grew up in poverty. My kids are middle class. I know the gulf that exists between the two, firsthand, and secondhand from working with kids in inner London for twelve years.

The squeezed middle will be ok. So can we stop pretending that people who earn over £50k a year are on the brink of destitution? It's really demeaning to those who survive on a lot less.

Totally agree, especially when it's suggested all the help low income families get is taken from middle income family taxation.

The delightful Liz Truss has certainly worked out who her target voters are going to be with the rhetoric about handouts and tax cuts. I will be amazed, if mildly heartened, if she isn't our PM next month...

Also can we please stop the myth that spreads here that students from less well off homes are 'better off' at university. I worked two jobs because I knew that if I called my parents and told them I couldn't afford to eat that week, they would be devastated because they couldn't afford to help me. And I couldn't burden them with that. And I couldn't go hungry either. So two jobs it was.

It's true that families with a single £50k earner are worse off than families where there are two people on £20k, because of how the tax system is set up. That income in London and the South-East is still very modest.

It isn't the grinding poverty of a family with one minimum wage earner, obviously. But I think it's easy to underestimate the effect of living in an expensive region, and the effect of the tax and benefits system on those who are narrowly into the higher band. They'll definitely be squeezed.

Oh and by the way I've lived at the grinding poverty level and at the squeezed level. And I've lived in one of the cheapest regions as well as the most expensive.

Grinding poverty is very different from swapping the Audi for a Ford though isn't it?

The 'squeezed middle' is just people wanting a lifestyle beyond their means. Cut back and you'll be grand.

Lots of the "squeeze middle" aren't "middle class" but working class. Tradesmen, admin, customer service etc. Lots of these can bring combined income of about 45k and more.

Unless I am misunderstanding class again, the indicators seem to change based on agenda

Government policy will understandably focus on the poorest. I support this, but that does mean that there will be a group of better off who will get less support. I am the single earner in my family, two kids at college and I am not expecting much help with my bills. To make things worse my heating is oil, so there is no support as there is for electricity and gas. I think the term "squeezed middle" describes us quite well and we will have to cut back on some of the things we would normally do.

Hmm I don’t know. I agree with most of your post but uni is a funny one.

when I went 15 years ago, the poorest students (rightly) got the maximum loan (£4K ish) and a non repayable grant (£3k ish). Those who came from better off families got the minimum loan only (£3k ish) - I fell in to this category. The expectation is parents chip in, which thankfully my dad did (gave me approx £4K per year, so in line with what the poorest students got). However, had my two younger siblings both gone to uni 2 years later he’d have had a year where he had to chip in for all 3 of us to the tune of £4K per year, and I don’t know that he could have afforded that. Then, I’d have had less money than the students from poorer backgrounds.

also, some parents just don’t get that they are expected to chip in and have the attitude ‘you’re 18, you’re on your own’ and give the child nothing, so they are stuck with just the £3k loan. these students are worse off than the students from poorer backgrounds. This happened to one of my house mates - who’s parents had sent him to one of the most expensive private schools in the country!! Blew my mind that they’d spent £30k+ on his education then basically cut him off!! Very weird behaviour.

Im just not sure that student funding for adults should be based on what their parents earn.

YABU

it isn’t a competition of who we be worst off. We know the worst off will be worst off but that doesn’t stop those on middle incomes being annoyed that they can no longer afford things that they previously could.

I’m most worried about what the impact of higher energy bills will be on the cost of childcare. We already pay over £1000 a month for it. Sure I’m not worried about whether I can feed my family but these are still big changes that are bad for almost everyone.

YABU- the squeezed middle very much exists. They get next to no help hence the idea that they get squeezed with no safety net.

It’s not a term I’d use but it’s an adequate description of certain earners who’ll be hit hard but make enough money to not get benefits. Obviously still preferable to outright poverty.

Is over 50k the middle? I would have thought 25-49k?

You can be “squeezed middle” without a particularly lavish or middle-class lifestyle. If you’re not miles above the cut off point for UC or tax credits, you won’t get any extra help but your costs go up just as much as anyone else, and with two people working you’re paying 2x travel costs, wraparound childcare etc. I know plenty of people in this bracket - people with professional jobs like teaching - and trust me they’re not trading down an Audi for a Ford, they’re thinking about switching the heating off this winter and whether they really need a shower every day. Seeing people get more money to help can feel a bit painful even when you realise they are in need - if you know your energy bill is going to go up £200/month and you don’t have that spare it’s frightening even if you earn £40k. It soon goes and it’s minimising real struggles to portray it as people having to cut down on holidays or piano lessons. Most people I know in my wage bracket don’t actually have much to cut down on.

The trouble is while you're correct that the poorest will suffer the most , the language of poor, poorest, squeezed middle just sets one group of people against another & that isn't helpful.
It's 2022 no one should be using a food bank, working or on benefits, no one should be pulling their own teeth out because they haven't got a dentist, no one should be dying in the.back of an ambulance because there's no bed for them. Pensioners on a fixed income shouldn't from January be paying 50% of their pension on their heating bills!
Even the language around 'Benefit's has subtly altered- tax credits, universal credits but all of a sudden the media is talking about handouts - like no one is deserving!
At the same time no water company should be making billions in profit when they have made no improvements in infrastructure - same for gas & electric companies.

Don't let this Govt & the media make you believe that any of this is ok - whether you earn 5 grand or 50!

Agree with all of this. The “squeezed middle” is real and it’s nurses, teachers etc.

I find the focus in many threads on earning over £50k pa as being ‘well off’ bizarre. Somewhere like London that is simply not the case, primarily because of housing costs. For those whose work, support network etc., relies on being in/near the city, a household income of what, £3,200pcm after tax, may well be difficult to live on. Eg: Full time nursery was £2k pcm, after school club is £250pcm, rent here on a two bed flat is upwards of £1,800pcm. Say no nursery, just after school club for one child, that would leave £1,150. An energy bill of £550 doesn’t leave a lot for other bills and food. OF COURSE someone who only has say £500 after housing costs will be worse off than someone with £1k+ after housing costs, but why have a race to the bottom? Why ignore that people who are struggling less are still struggling? My friend in a rural area clears ‘only’ £2k pcm, but her two bedroom house costs her about £500pcm, so she is actually better off.

Yabu, they are the ones paying the tax, often getting no state support whilst others do. Middle earners are often those who just tip into 40% making their tax burden irrationally high. They won’t be driving Audis either. You are looking at teachers, nurses, trades.

"it isn’t a competition of who we be worst off. We know the worst off will be worst off but that doesn’t stop those on middle incomes being annoyed that they can no longer afford things that they previously could. "

^This. People are allowed to care about and speak to their own circumstances 🤷‍♀️

State support is a pittance for many. I can't believe people on here genuinely think teachers will be worse off than unskilled labourers and the unemployed.

I'm talking about children not eating a hot meal every day. Not having a bath before bed. Hundreds of thousands of them.

£50k is a lot better off than £15k.

AtomicBlondeRose they don’t have much to cut down on as they are living either beyond their means or a more ‘middle class’ lifestyle. I work with people who really are living in poverty- their life is vastly different to my middle class teacher and social worker friends who say they are skint.
Poor are in tiny council houses on electric meters. Middle class skint friends are in nice bought houses with 1k mortgages, two cars , kids in a wide variety of activities and eating good quality food. The drain is the bigger mortgage and two car payments.

Poor are in tiny council houses on electric meters. Middle class skint friends are in nice bought houses with 1k mortgages, two cars , kids in a wide variety of activities and eating good quality food

There is loads in the middle and that's that squeezed middle....

Can we direct our anger at the massive corporations making literal billions from ALL of us and the governments who are in their pockets?
Divide and rule is live and well!

I’m not sure language such as ‘poor high earners’ is particularly helpful, unless of course your aim is to pit groups against one another. Are the ‘squeezed’ middle high earners? Sure, in relation to the those in poverty, but they’re not high earners to the point where they’re not going to struggle with paying the mortgage, filling the fridge, or keeping their houses warm this winter. There is legitimate reason for them to be worried, to be stressed, and indeed to be struggling.

the fact that others have it worse does not negate the negative impact this is having on those in the middle, or mean that they should just put up without complaint.