Neighbour/tree dispute who is BU?

[HisHX]

Hi,

We moved into our property 10 years ago and a huge selling point for us was that we’re surround by trees which afford us total privacy in the garden (and look beautiful!). We’re in a conservation area so automatic TPO.
We have 3 neighbours on one side, as their gardens join ours vertically IYSWIM. The gardens in that street are much shorter and shadier than the ones in ours. We’ve always got on well with all 4 neighbours.
A few months ago a new neighbour moved in, and within days came over to ask us if we would cut the trees down so that their garden would get more sun. We immediately said no, but that the tree surgeon was due that week anyway so they’d be tidied up. They were clearly unhappy and said things like “can’t you just cut them down completely? Your garden is much bigger than ours so it seems selfish you won’t let us enjoy ours”. This annoyed me, as nothing had changed since they bought the house, but we remained polite.
Today, they’ve been round again to say that the roots of our trees have cracked a (decorative, not structural, single brick, looks to have been built about 40 years ago) wall in their garden, so we really must take them down.
My view is that the trees have been here much longer, the crack could be caused by anything - ground movements, general maintenance etc. and the wall shouldn’t have been built so close to huge well established trees in the first place, or at least not expected to last forever.

AIBU? Should we apply to the council for permission to chop down the trees that we love, giving the neighbours line of sight into our garden?
Could they force us to based on the wall?

I really don’t want to fall out with neighbours, but equally don’t want to feel forced into something I don’t want.

This.
I live in a conservation area and our trees do not have TPOs on them, but you DO have to get planning permission to do anything with them.

I have TPO on trees in my garden, we never touch them and apparently it's near enough impossible to get the council to allow them to be cut down. They have caused subsidence due to their roots so the wall issue is probably correct, a wall can be rebuilt though! If I were you I would construct a clear concise letter stating that you will not be cutting down trees and state why. If they persist send a solicitors letter - and make sure you mention the fine they will be charged if they do damage any trees, in case of 'sabotage'

We had a similar issue with trees in a neighbouring properties overhanging our boundary. The owner wasn't receptive to doing anything about it so we involved the council who said even with a tpo they can be reduced by 20%. I agree it's a bit pissy of the neighbours but they clearly aren't going to let this rest and are looking for excuses. They could well force you to reduce the overall size. Surely they noticed the trees before buying the house. Did they not ask the vendor about them? I'd be telling them to piss off but having been in their position I know that it is possible to get them reduced through the council of there's evidence the trees are effecting their property.

If trees are causing genuine issues with the structural integrity of their property then yabu. If not, they abu. To be honest I'd give anything for a shaded garden right now!

I’d be tempted to get an individual TPO on that tree sharpish.

right now we need all the trees and shade we can get. His garden and house will be massively benefiting from it.

although if he doesn’t like a shadey garden. Why did he buy that house?!? I love his “not fair”. There’s a parent somewhere who never said no to him.

To add to all the excellent advice, old trees should be stable with non-invasive root systems. If you are on clay and ended up removing them, you get a thing called heave, as the trees are no longer sucking water from the soil. This will definitely cause structural damage.

It's just a decorative brick wall so arguably something not a suitable for the terrain. In any case if they are in the south the current weather conditions are likely to cause soil movement that would damage that type of wall as it's unlikely to have decent foundations tree or no tree.

God no! Do not do anything to the trees. I can't believe they bought the house with the intention of trying to make you chop down YOUR well established trees! What brats.

I second this, as this is what our structural engineer told us when our NDN wanted us to cut a tree down. He fought it out with an insurance company & 30 years later, the tree's still there.

I always thought if a NDN somehow forced us to cut a tree down, I'd make them sign something taking full responsibility for any damage caused by heave, to their property or ours. Don't know if that's possible legally, but I would've tried it & maybe it would've made them back off.

Can I just say I'm annoyed by people IRL whining that their garden is smaller than their neighbours' garden so they're owed XYZ. Surely the price they paid for their house reflected the smaller garden?

I'm trying to picture three gardens joined vertically to yours, imagining them all stacked on top of each other.

There aren't only two options as you seem to envisage: leaving them as they are or chopping them down.
Between those two extremes there are many potential ameliorating solutions or courses of action which could both preserve the beauty and shade of trees and protect the neighbour's property from damage.

We here have no idea of the size, type of tree or distance from neighbour's house, land or wall so we can't offer specific tailored advice. But there are numerous ways of altering the shape, height, size, density and impact of trees, among them pollarding, pruning, shaping, selective branch removal, crown reduction, crown thinning - even root pruning should it prove to be that your roots were reaching and damaging the neighbour's property - but you'd need specialist advice about this. Any one of these methods could be right or wrong for your particular situation, type of tree and so on because they all have different effects.

The neighbour would have to establish with evidence that your tree roots caused the damage if they wanted to make a claim. That would mean them having to engage professional services such as a structural engineer and possibly also an arboriculturalist.

An arboriculturalist is a qualified tree specialist who understands the science and research relating to trees, their growth, effects and interactions with soil, water, land and property, including the effects of chopping down trees, which could damage your neighbour's property by causing land heave, which is the opposite of land subsidence. Heave can happen when the effect of removal of trees restores water to the soil and subsidence by the effect of tree growth removing water from the soil, resulting in cracks. Either one can do damage.

You could engage a properly qualified and experienced arboriculturalist to understand more about possible tree problems or solutions or to protect yourself against getting drawn further into an unsubstantiated claim of damage. A good one is worth having when dealing with neighbours, council tree officers, insurance companies, engineers and the like and they know a great deal more than a council tree officer may do.

Thank you everyone!! I was starting to question myself, such is their display of entitlement. My other (much nicer) neighbour, suggested we repair the wall for them and leave it at that, but since we’re in SE England and it’s been consistently dry and hot for weeks/months here, I’m genuinely not convinced the roots even caused damage. The wall is purely decorative, isn’t suitable for the terrain and could have been cracked for years as far as I know.
Thanks for the tips and reassurance, I’ll be reiterating absolutely not!

It really annoys me when people cut down trees. My downstairs neighbour has the opposite problem….I’ve had my bathroom window replaced with clear glass so that I’ve got a view of his cherry tree and I think he’s now scared to prune it in case I complain!

The difference in temperature underneath trees is quite extreme….this weather would be far more bearable if there were more trees and they always make an area look better. If I was the prime minister (or dictator) I would force people to plant as many trees as possible in their gardens.

Don't repair the wall OP, it would suggest you accept liability.
Our normal town garden in traversed with cracks atm. Some 5/8 inch wide where the clay is near the surface. It's the extreme dryness.

Say no - but find out the exact situation regarding your trees and if they don't have a TPO, see if you can get one!

Neighbours are CF who thought they could buy a house with a shaded garden then bully you into chopping down trees!

When they bought the house their solicitor will have told them that it is in a conservation area, which affects what you can do to buildings and trees. This would have been a basic search by the solicitor. There is no excuse for them now demanding a change. They knew what they were buying. Hang on to your precious trees, OP. Trees should never be cut down on a whim anyway. They are precious in the environment and need to be cherished and looked after.
Take loads of pictures, and be aware that they may try sabotage - in which case it would be for the police and a criminal damage charge.
I would write to them, so that there is a record of this issue, in case it is needed in future. Write that the trees are protected and you will not be cutting them down. Warn them in writing against doing anything to damage them. That could be important in future if they try anything.

Do not repair the wall for them. That would suggest you accept liability where as you say ot may not even be related to the tree

Should have added, can you get CCTV trained on the trees, in case they try to damage them?

@HisHX the only thing I would suggest is to go into their garden with them to see what impact your trees are having on them. If you haven't seen it from their side then you don't know how it affects them. I am not saying remove the trees but perhaps thinning or reducing the crown may help. Nothing worse than feeling quite miserable in your own home because of something you have no control over. Just see it from their side, see the impact.

We had a silver birch tree that was too big for the space it was in and we did have it removed. We are surrounded by trees and mature shrubs so this wasn't like I had 1 tree in my garden and nothing else. The neighbours came and thanked us, apparently they had asked the previous owners who refused to remove it. The tree shaded their entire garden, we had no idea that it did.

If they wanted a bigger garden then they should’ve bought a house with one then shouldn’t they. It’s not your problem.

id pop up a few this property is protected by cctv signs to prevent them from doing anything stupid when you aren’t there and get an assessment from the tree surgeon saying that the trees are all well maintained and in good order.

if they keep contacting you regarding the trees I’d get a solicitor to send them a cease and desist letter.

Sod 'em!

Where houses and gardens are built close together, most common trees are not suitable for that type of situation and householders might not be able to get insurance or would have high exemption charges or higher premiums because of the risk of damage to buildings.

They bought the house with your trees already well established and according to your previous neighbour the cracked brick wasn't caused by your trees but them 😉😉😉

What's the point of this thread? Seriously, do you actually think there's a chance YABU? Do you really need the reassurance of the internet people that you don't need to chop down your trees because of an U neighbour?

'The trees were here long before you and any number of things might have caused the crack in your wall.' End of chat 😂 do not feel like you have to do anything!!!! Make it clear you won't tolerate any further enquiries- just tell them to speak to the relevant council department. They will make it clear to these people that they have no rights.

Well yes, actually. Clearly their approach is unreasonable, I know that. But I was interested to hear whether they had any grounds at all, and to arm myself with some more points and facts before I go round later.
I found him quite intimidating earlier and so said I would come and speak with him at a more convenient time.
There’s been some really helpful points made (for example I didn’t know removing trees could cause more movement), he’s a bolshy, argumentative type so the more I have to go on the better.
I’m so unused to confrontation.