to think recruitment crisis is partly due to employer pickiness?

[WhereAreMyAirpods]

DS has just had a rejection for a job - 10 hours a week at the local supermarket.

DS is currently a student and will be going back at the end of September. He told the supermarket at interview that he was happy to work as many hours as they needed until the end of September, and then after that, weekends/evenings and at times when he's not in Uni.

They said no, that wasn't what they were looking for. They were looking for someone who wanted 10 hours a week fully flexible, changing week on week. So one week it might be all day Saturday and a Tuesday morning, the next week three afternoons, the following week Thursday afternoon and Sunday - and so on.

Who can commit to that sort of work pattern? It doesn't work for people who have any other responsibilities whether that's childcare, or kids at school, or another part time job, or study. 10 hours a week isn't enough hours to survive on, but the demand for total flexibility means taking another job is impossible too.

DD in contrast works for another big high street shop which doesn't have issues recruiting because they advertise set shifts - she is contracted for 7 hours on a Sunday and although her start time can be anything from 8am to 11am, it's still 7 hours on a Sunday.

AIBU to think that supermarkets and other large employers can't have it both ways?

Yes I agree. These companies seem to feel they are doing you a massive favour somehow. What about Just Eat deliveries or something like that? Some years ago I was offered a minimum wage contract .No use to me or anyone

DS left a supermarket job due to their ridiculous shift requests and the complete lack of any structure around them. He’d be put on a late so didn’t finish until 10.30 then an early the following day which was a 7am start. Nowhere near the legal rest requirements.

Think the last straw was when he did a stint on the bakery starting at 4am then had a stroppy call from his manager asking him why he wasn’t there for an afternoon shift when he didn’t get home until lunchtime.

The carer crisis is another thing. Surely the agencies know peak times for care services and could offer 2 or 3 set shorter shift patterns not 12 hours 7-7 alternating.
30 years ago when I was a student doing holiday jobs lots of factories offered twilight shifts - some women had worked their years as hours suited (husband had kids after work no childcare). Local biscuit factory offers a set 10-2 shift and has no issues filling it, the other similar one that’s long hours and no public transport is always advertising it’s not rocket science to work out why.

I definitely think some employers are too picky - they still haven't realised that workers are in the driving seat.

Same goes for ridiculous application processes. Just ask for a CV and short piece on why the person thinks they can do the job, then interview them!

And it's perfectly possible to fill jobs with fixed hour shifts. A lot of people will want overtime, so they can cover sickness, holidays etc. There are very few people who can work fully flexible hours as you say and there's no need for it.

Why not employee people who want school hrs to work school hrs and teenagers/students to do the other hrs indeed and that always used to be the case in retail.

I have the same problem-they expect us not to have a life but be there if they want us

we get the following weeks shifts on Friday-Sunday night,ready for Monday but if they give you a shift and you can’t do it,(as in you’ve told them the hours you can’t work but they ignore that and still put you down to work)it’s on your head to find cover your shift or work it even if you can’t physically get there-one lass I work with had her holidays cancelled-she was taking the holiday as she was getting married-she quit on the spot

phoning in sick is frowned on-I’ve been hauled in and bollocked for having tonsillitis/covid/a fall down the stairs and badly damaged my knee-they tried (and failed) to give me a warning for all 3

ive had the last few days at work and they where the shifts from hell-I have two rare days off-I had a snotty message this morning (5:30am) saying I have to go in ‘or else’

tough shit-I’ve had no support at all for the last couple of shifts (it’s been crazy busy and I’ve been on my own,trying to deal with two floors at the same time) and I refused-if they dare try and haul me in to make me explain what I’ve been doing today/tomorrow then they will get me in full force-any overtime is up to me to decide not them and what I do on my days off is nothing to do with anyone but me

im part time but I’m working 40+ hours a week just to stand still as we are that short staffed and they can’t find anyone who will stay for longer than a fortnight

It’s shit-and they scratch their arses wondering why nobody wants to work for them

I think you are at least partially right OP. My son (student) got turned down in March last year for a 10 hours a week job as he wouldn't commit to working at Xmas when we had a family holiday planned. I understand they want Xmas cover, but I did wonder why they couldn't fix their short term problem first and tackle Xmas later. He said they remained short staffed for month (it was a store local to him - literally opposite his apartment).

Not the point of the thread but Next don’t always manage it.

I worked there for a year to get me out of the house, as I found being a SAHM too difficult. My contract was for 6 hours. 3 hours Wednesday/3 hours Sunday. It never once worked out as that. I always worked a full day Sunday.
Although you could see your shifts going forward a few weeks (and these were always more hours) managers would then put extra shifts on different days and varying hours in to accommodate the store. If you couldn’t make said shifts you could offer them up but if it wasn’t taken you HAD to work it, contracted hours or not or face disciplinary action.

I left in the end because of it. I couldn’t offer the flexibility they demanded, especially for minimum wage and seemed bewildered when I said this. You can’t just pull whatever days or hours out of your arse and make it the employee’s responsibility to sort that for you. I hope it’s changed there now.

Unfortunately he can't take a driving job as he is yet to pass his test due to a combination of dyspraxia and extreme Covid delays. It's booked for 29th Sept. Everything crossed.

The student/Mum set up also works as come school hols when mum wants to drop 9.30-3 shift as holiday childcare is more than NMW the student who normally does Sat and Sunday is off college and wants the hours.
Lots of jobs are probably are more set hours once you’re had interview but the adverts are bonkers - most are the 10 hours any time and day type thing.
A posh local supermarket had 11 hours over one weekend day and one late evening shift on board outside bet they’ve been inundated with decent student applicants who will stay.

I worked in hospitality about 15 yrs ago managing a large team of staff, a lot of school, college and university students included. This was in the days when we had specific Saturday and Sunday staff. So weekday staff did mostly weekdays with 1 in 4 weekends to supplement the weekend staff. Weekend staff did mostly weekends some of the uni students had days off during the week and could work them if we needed them. School holidays meant most of the students could work some weekdays as well to cover staff holidays. The rota’s were time consuming for me to do but everyone was happy with what they worked. Staff stayed with the job for years.
The place I worked no longer exists but anywhere similar don’t seem to have many specific Weekend staff they just expect their regular staff to be available 7 days a week which means they end up working 3 out of 4 weekends with an odd Tuesday or Wednesday off instead.
I’m sure the rota’s are easier to do for the managers though which seems to take priority over their staff members preferences. Hence the large staff turnover.

DD's been at Next a year and hasn't felt pressured to take extra - but she is one of the youngest members of staff there. She has picked up a couple of extra shifts when it has suited her (and when she wants cash for new trainers) but they don't give her a hard time if she doesn't.

I'm really surprised that employers say its your responsibility to cover a shift you can't do - how fucking bone idle is that? So you want your colleague running around trying to cover a shift instead of working. That makes sense.

I heard that they are trying to get over 55's back into work,but I expect they will have a challenge as a post menopausal woman won't take any of this shit 😂i can't believe how up their own arse these employers are.

Mc Donalds , notified on a Wednesday of the upcoming shifts for the following week. Alll shifts fit arround college and increase in half terms and hols. Fed while on shift and staff discount outside of working hours.Flexability when needing time off (family/hols etc)and they also emailed staff to inform them of addittional time of that may be needed due to exam/ study time table.. Pay is good for a student managment and team nice to work with. Also offer pleanty of on the job training. Its a big employeer of students in our area.

Tell you son not to mention uni next time and then just quit at the end of September.

Yanbu. Employers are used to having all the power and being able to treat employees for low wage jobs really badly. They haven’t adjusted to not having lots of migrant workers from the EU like they did pre-Brexit.

My friend had a ‘zero hours contract’ that lasted 3 months without ever giving her work! They kept saying am sure we’ll need you next week.

NHS has done this in lots of hospitals for years.

Hence one of my SILs now works in the community where they don't do this and understand that people have families.

I agree. All these online applications with ridiculous tasks and personality tests are BS for a part time minimum wage job.

I get it, they set the bar (algorithm) to the perfect candidate- the one who is happy to do back flips in a wedding dress and has always worked in this type of job for the last 150 years- but should definitely be between 25 and 35 ... obviously not child bearing.... no hobbies or god forbid have children, parents or other people who need their attention!

Am old enough to remember when part time jobs didnt mean completely flexible contracts. Things changed after 2004 when East European adult workers came over and were happy to do that - Brexit obviously put a stop to that. However, employers dont seem to have adjusted to the change.

The reason why the government were happy to let employers do that and have zero hours contract is because it kept the unemployment headline figure down - while no one cared about the underemployment figures

Yep.

I remember a now defunct large retailer offering zero hours contracts in the early 1990s. Oddly they never got anyone to take the positions until around 2005.

Someone else I know who runs a similar type business just carried on relying on family, friends and acquaintances plus those of his staff to make up short term gaps when he needed more employees.

And the reason they only offer 10 hrs per week is to shift NIC, sick pay, holiday pay and pension obligations to the taxpayer via WTC and UC.

I agree.

I use a local cat sitting service, and as I have cat care experience, when they mentioned they were struggling for staff, I said I'd be interested.

But their job advert was ridiculously restrictive, given that it's a job with very variable demand. You'd think having someone who can be available at short notice willing to work irregular shifts would be a good back up person to have on their books, but no dice!

I've mentioned this to everyone who throws around that there are loads of jobs. There are, but very few proper jobs. Older people (I'm in my 50's) always talk about having two/three jobs, not realising that these days full flexibility is needed. It's all part of the gig economy etc that Corbyn pledged to end.

These places expect you to make their shitty minimum wage job your entire world and then cry when no one applies. It's ridiculous.

This sums it well I think. I think some workplaces still feel like they are doing people a charitable favour by employing them, that workers should bend over backwards to adjust and be grateful for what they can get. It’s not like that anymore. And it never should have been. Companies need to get with the times.

Re the 12 hour shifts

I vaguely remember them changing from 8 hours in any sector needing 24 hour staff - so anything from hospitals to big media websites.

It all seemed to happen at the same time. I think the Human Robot advice was that it would reduce costs to staff that way. 2 people per day instead of 3. I thought it would cancel out with a shorter working week so I really don't get it. It also causes worse issues if anyone is late and someone has to cover for them.

I was really hoping the Great Resignation will solve some of these issues but with the cost of living, probably not.