Are the Council being unreasonable with this?

[Rampxoxo]

My elderly mother lives in a ground floor council flat. She is disabled and uses a mobility scooter to get out. She stores her mobility scooter in her flat.

When she goes out on her scooter, she struggles to get it down the 7" step at the communal front door. It is a block of 6 flats, with 3 storey (two flats on each level), which share the same communal front door.

I have asked the council to install a ramp at the front door. They have said they only do ramps for people who are completely wheelchair dependent, not to help people with scooters to get out.

Is this reasonable? I feel like they are being tight and unhelpful.

If she is struggling with mobility it may not be a bad thing to have “just in case”. The OT may be able to refer or at least tell you where to go for the assessment.

That is interesting. Can you reference the part in the DFG legislation that says ramps only for Wheelchair dependent people? I am looking at the guidance on the government website and can't see any reference to this specific point.

Yes, good point.

To be honest, the fact that it is a communal access is a red herring anyway. Mum is being denied a ramp because they only do them for wheelchair dependent people. If she was wheelchair dependent, they would do a ramp at the communal access apparently.

Im not sure it’s that simple. If your mum needed a wheelchair the OT would make the recommendation that she needed a wheelchair and obviously that would come with the need for her to have wheelchair access. Then the council would send out someone from housing to see if the property was suitable and it would be up to them to decide if they could safely fit a ramp. That’s not something the OT gets to decide, so if the housing people decided that a ramp wouldn’t work for some reason, the your Mum would go on a list to be rehoused.

Either way, it looks like you’ve had some good advice and you’re willing to fight for what your Mum needs. I wish you a lot of luck and really hope you can find a solution for your Mum, she’s very lucky to have you on side.

In the meantime, surely two blocks of wood would reduce the height of the step by half? Easily put down and picked up again.

Almost all [councils] are in severe deficit. I have never known things to be so tight. We literally can't find a couple of £thousands "down the back of the sofa" for nice stuff like this.

Most are still chucking ££thousands a year though at crap like illegal Stonewall advice though. That's what annoys people.

But I do appreciate it's the massive loss of Government grant(s) over the past 12 years that are a huge issue. Nevertheless, councils still have legal obligations as housing providers towards their disabled tenants. @Rampxoxo can your mum and her DP manage a put-down-and-pick-up ramp for now? I rather imagine the 'reasonable adjustment' the council will suggest will be a managed/assisted move.

@Rampxoxo I think you are mis-understanding the OT, they aren’t saying a ramp would be built if she was a wheelchair user but rather if she was a wheelchair user she would require a ramp. The council would then need to assess if it was possible in her current accommodation or whether she would need to be re-housed.

I think storage outside would be the best solution if possible I hope you get it sorted!

I di not say it was. I said that it isn't her home - it is everyone's home. I suggested that there were other ways of approaching this, as have others. People can't always have what they want. Just because you want it doesn't mean you can have it.

Being completely wheelchair dependant is different from using a mobility scooter at times. You say that she struggles to get her mobility scooter from her flat down a 7 inch step. How the hell does she get it down a step at all? They are heavy and 7" as a step is well beyond the acceptable lip for a scooter. It would need lifting down - she can't possibly safely ride it up and down a step like that. So are you saying that she is strong enough to manage to lift a scooter up and down a large step. That she can walk, and lift, a scooter? Because I am fairly strong despite my limited mobility and no way could I lift a mobility scooter up and down a large step.

What it really boils down to is Mum could rely on other people to push her in a wheelchair. Instead, she chose to purchase a mobility scooter to maintain independence. It would seem that mobility scooter users are less deserving of help in the eyes of the council. The OT has not suggested that it is not feasible to ramp the communal access.
I would ask about the possibility of us paying for outside storage for the scooter but I can't see where it could go.

I think the reasoning behind the scooter v wheelchair issue for ramping is that anyone can go off and buy a scooter and then ask for potentially expensive adaptations. It would simply not be possible to provide a ramp for all scooter owners. In many (most!) areas written permission is needed for people to store scooters in their council homes and they have to ensure they can safely charge it etc.

Scooters are treated very differently to wheelchairs. For example I don’t think there is a legal requirement to allow them on buses like there is for wheelchairs.

Why doesn’t she approach the freeholder and offer to pay for a ramp?

My neighbour has a mobility scooter and her dh made a ramp so she could get up and down the curb at their house. They pop it out as she leaves then take it back in, when she gets home either her dh brings the ramp out or she nips into their garden to get it.

It's nothing amazing, made of wood and made to measure for her scooter and the curb but it works well for them.

Do you/your dm know anyone with decent woodwork skills who could try something similar? Even as a temporary measure so she isn't navigating the step.

Sorry OP Yabu.

Previous posters are trying to explain.

Part M Ramp legislation is crazy but there for good reason. A 1:12 ramp is not one you want to walk down on an icey day. It’s 8% and the maximum allowed for shared access. It’s not a nice entrance for others. But besides that it might not even be possible..

It’s not just the distance. You also need turning circle space at top and bottom. Hazard strip spacing, handrails etc.

And the key issue is for you a 7” rise is over the amount you can gain with a 2m 1:12 run. Which means you also have to have a rest stop of min 1.5m square in the middle of two ramps and then the hazard strip spacing as well.

It’s often not physically possible to fit this in to old sites. People just don’t get it. As designers we have many gifts but can’t bend time and space unfortunately 🤣

I am an OT working for our local council. The OT's assessment sounds like a pretty standard response. DFG's can be used to enable people access to their property. If your Mum is able to get in/out of her property then her needs are met. The fact she can't get her scooter in/out is more of an issue of storing the scooter.

That being said there shouldn't be blanket policies and your mum's needs should have been assessed fully. For example I have put ramps in for people who need their scooter to access the local community, to buy food etc. I have justified it by saying that without use of a scooter they would be reliant on care.

You could just ring and ask for a senior OT to visit, you don't have to complain or go to your MP, just ring to request it.

I work in this sector and believe that mobility scooters are not considered as a mobility aid, so OT's will not provide funding or recommendations for adaptations.

There is a whole host of issues with using scooters in social housing and there is normally a policy that permission should be sought from the HA before one can be stored in the property.

If permission is given then they may make some adaptations themselves, if not your mum has probably breached her tenancy.

Thank you for this helpful advice. It is appreciated.

On another note, I do think that many mobility scooter users would qualify for the issue of a wheelchair, if they were to apply for one to be provided . The very reason they buy scooters is because they can't walk any distance.

In a way, it seems crazy to me that the Council policy of no wheelchair, no ramp is almost forcing people to apply for wheelchairs just as a passport to a ramp. Once the (probably expensive to provide) wheelchair is issued, it would just sit there gathering moth balls, while the person uses their scooter instead because it gives them independent mobility.

I genuinely think you’d be surprised at just how difficult it is to qualify for a wheelchair it really is quite disgraceful the threshold for what is deemed an acceptable level of mobility.

How depressing :(