To think I'm not being entitled with TV guarantee?

[Lurapuppypants]

Three years ago DH and I splashed out on (for us) a very expensive TV at £1800 (including fitting). It was one which has the "art mode" so when it's on standby, it looks like a picture in a frame. We decorated our living room to incorporate the "art".

We bought it from John Lewis, mostly because it came with a 5 year guarantee.

We have had the TV now for 3 years, and it has developed a fault. John Lewis sent engineers round, but the part to fix it is no longer available. They accept completely that the TV's fault is nothing to do with us and shouldn't have happened.

John Lewis have offered us £1200 to spend on a new TV. The equivalent model to the one we currently have (same size, same brand, just a 2021 version as the 2019 we bought is no longer available) is now £1400 - so a lot less than we originally paid, but they won't cover this.

Their guarantee is supposed to cover an "equivalent" - I'm not demanding the £1800 we originally paid, of course - we've had the TV for 3 years - but I would expect them to replace like with like. Their reasoning is that with a new TV we would get another 5 year guarantee - but as this doesn't actually seem to cover what we need it to, it's hardly a selling point!

We literally just want the same TV we already have - we have offered to have a refurbed TV (they don't do them), to wait for a repair (not possible), or to have the same model that they currently sell (this is where they won't offer enough money towards it).

AIBU to expect the guarantee to actually cover like-for-like?

I agree with all the other posters who say that the 'Frame' feature (and the very low profile on the wall) are absolutely pay of the specification.

'Letter before action' and Small Claims Court perhaps?

...part...

Whenever I have claimed on a guarantee they’ve replaced it with either a refurbished model of the same age or given the newer version. So I don’t think they’re right to say you should accept less money than you paid or have a TV that doesn’t do the main thing you bought it to do.

This was their last response (spelling mistakes not mine!). I was also very clear I did not expect a full refund:

"I do fully appreciate where you are coming from, so I am sorry that we cannot offer you a full refund. If we were to provide you a full refund, it would mean that you would have had your TV for 3 years at no cost, I hope I have explained it well to you. The TV we have found for you (which you do not have to purchase) does have similar specifications which means we have stuck to our guarantee, the Frame is an aesthetic and not how the TV functions, which is why it doesn't come in to concideration when we make the settlement offer.

We don't sell the same TV anymore, you purchased a 2019 model and we only have the 2021/2022 ones. We will only be able to offer you a partial refund of £1200 on this occasion."

What size is it? Samsung have it for £899 for the 55" here

Hi OP what does the warranty actually say it will cover? That is the important part.

Ok, so based on what @Lougle just found - Samsung are flogging off the 2022 version for £900.

If the refund is cash, take it, buy that, and pocket £300. It won’t be rocket science to install it as another poster said. Unscrew the mounting bracket from the old tv, put it on the new one, job done.

*sorry 2021 version. When are we going to get an edit post option!

I have looked at the current TV and the associated warranty. It is a Domestic & General Policy provided on behalf of John Lewis by an Insurance Company called Domestic and General. This is what the current version says about replacements:
"For accepted claims, we may decide (at our discretion) to arrange for
you to receive either a replacement item or give you a John Lewis &
Partners gift card, rather than carry out a repair (for example where
we cannot repair it or we decide that it is uneconomical for us to
repair your product). For items such as laptops, wearable technology,
tablets, headphones or game consoles, we may decide to provide
you with either a remanufactured or a refurbished replacement,
rather than a new one. All replacements will be of the same or
similar make and technical specification as your product. However,
it may not be the same colour as your original product. We will not
transfer your data to a replacement device" "
"Gift cards: The gift card will be for the then current John Lewis &
Partners full retail price of a replacement product of the same or
similar make and technical specification and for the cost of delivery.
Where the replaced product is a television, the gift card value
will also include the cost of installation by John Lewis & Partners
(excluding the enhanced wall mount service)".

The USP of the this Samsung Lifestyle Range TV (in this case) The Screen as per John Lewis's website:
"Samsung's The Frame is a stunningly slim TV that can be endlessly transformed. All to reflect your taste and reinvent your everyday space. It's the perfect balance of fine art and epic TV entertainment, all on a revolutionary, glare-free QLED display. So when you’re not watching TV, The Frame turns into a glare-free canvas to showcase iconic art or your treasured pics".

So for me an equivalent product would need to be a glare-free canvas with interchangeable frames to showcase my art/holiday pictures. If the proposed replacement can't be "endlessly transformed" it isn't a suitable replacement. If you wanted a huge black screen in your lounge, you would have bought a huge black screened TV, not a Samsung Frame

John Lewis still sell such TVs, albeit at a higher spec than what you originally had (but it is reasonable to expect technology to advance).

The policy is silent on making deductions for wear and tear. If wear and tear deductions were to apply it would be in the policy wording.

The insurance clerk's interpretation of the insurance cover is incorrect. Ask to escalate your complaint.

Ooh! Excellent spot!

JL have been silent so far about whether the amount is cash or store credit, but if we reach a deadlock over the amount and they won't budge, I'll ask for cash and buy it here (just hope it stays in stock!).

Apparently Richer Sounds do a 6 year guarantee as standard. Just a shame it's out of stock with them.

I love Mumsnet at moments like this. It's like having access to my own legal team.

I am still awaiting a reply to the email I sent them yesterday morning. I'll chase again if I've still heard nothing by tomorrow.

I'd definitely escalate the issue to someone senior. That reply they sent you was awful!

I agree they need to give you the Frame TV or refund your original £1400 as the product was faulty. You can then buy a TV elsewhere.

Just wait a couple of months and they will likely be reduced.

We have a Samsung frame and it dropped £500 between order and delivery, the sale began in September. It was more difficult than I though to sort it with John Lewis but they did it in the end.

I've been there OP (albeit with household insurance). The loss adjuster was originally proposing to send us off to DFS to replace persian carpets and ££ sofas after an accidental water leak.

After an exchange of letters, we highlighted the "like for like clause" and supplied estimates from the original retailers. It turned out to be a rather expensive claim.

I suspect the person you are dealing with is new to the job or the Insurer is trying to keep their claims costs down. Incorrectly in your particular instance.

This is their latest response, which also doesn't make sense as they say the most they would give is the selling price of the TV - which was nearly £1800.

They have also provided a link to their guarantee.

"The guarantee info is here:

www.johnlewis.com/customer-services/guarantees-and-troubleshooting-guides?dt=guarantees-electricals-electricalTv

It is relatively broad as the specs used to match need adjusting as we go due to ever changing tech and functionality in the audio visual market.

Manaufacturer is not a spec we look at, sadly neither are aestheics. If we can, we would always do so, but it is not always possible within the original selling value, which is the absolute most we could be expected to provide. Key points are image quality and, size - where we cannot offer a match, we upgrade so the value offerred is fair and can be used towards a TV of your choosing."

I'm so upset with them. I'll never buy a large electrical appliance with them again.

Haggle. Get them to include fitting and disposal of the old set. Then accept. It’s pretty unreasonable to expect a new TV after three years use.

@Blossomtoes I don't want a new tv though. I want my current one working. They can't do that, can't provide me with a refurbished one but do still sell the same make/model, but won't provide it.

But you do want a new TV or you wouldn’t be pissed off because they won’t give you the same make and model, despite having been offered a new replacement that isn’t the same. I think you’re being unreasonable. You’ve had three years use of an item that depreciated the moment it left the shop.

I want the same make and model because of the features it has.

I would be happy with my current set repaired. I don't need a new tv, I just want the same make and model and features I originally paid for.

I've had issues with JL Customer Service in the past, I stuck with it, as I knew I was right, and kept escalating. Eventually someone fairly high up agreed, apologised profusely, replaced my item with a new one and gave me £50 for the inconvenience.

@Lurapuppypants I think you're absolutely right to ask for enough to buy an equivalent, with the artwork, so keep trying and escalating would be my advice! Good luck!

It's not OPs fault that Domestic & General can't source a refurbished TV.

It might involve you and you family looking sad in a Saturday newspaper, but this is the sort of thing the newspaper consumer rights champions like pursuing.

This is the Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie-investigates/katie-morley-investigates-contact-form/

OP I suggest that you reply to the insurance clerk:

"..... before I refer this matter to a Newspaper Consumer Champion and/or the Insurance Ombudsmen, I would like to give you a further opportunity to resolve this to my satisfaction. This is damaging the reputation of your employer and John Lewis....."

I've just had the same issue with a washing machine. I had to admit defeat, take the refund as JL couldn't replace my machine with the same model (which is all they were offering, making a mockery of their own guarantee) and pay for a new machine with another retailer.

Currys are shocking - they were supposed to repair our TV but sent back what I believe was a different TV as the screen was cracked, it was dirty and had a different plug. After a lot of arguing they agreed to replace it but gave us a lot less than we needed to get like for like.

When we did get a new TV it didn't work properly, half the picture was missing, and the store manager told me it was a feature of the set! He then threatened to have me arrested when I complained loudly about the poor service. That was despite him asking me what part no don't I understand when I asked him to replace the faulty set!

Ive always thought JL would be a better bet but they all sound as bad as each other!

It's interesting for those of you mentioning the insurance ombudsman, as I didn't pay for insurance, would it still count or is it a "goodwill" warranty on behalf of JL?

I can't find any details of underwriters etc. on the 5-year guarantee link they shared with me.

I will keep escalating.