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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... to think we can extend this list a lot? Surely almost every book and film could have a content warning for something?

166 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 10/08/2022 07:57

The Times today reports that ^universities have started removing books from reading lists to protect students from “challenging” content and have applied trigger warnings to more than 1,000 texts, a Times investigation has found.
Ten universities, including three from the Russell Group, have withdrawn books from course study lists, or made them optional, in case they cause students harm. The texts include the 2017 Pulitzer Prize-winning novel The Underground Railroad, by Colson Whitehead, which has been “removed permanently” from a course reading list at Essex University because of concerns about graphic depictions of slavery.^

There are many serious and obvious things to say about this, but they're all in the article. The aspect that engaged me is that it gives the list in full. I am certain we could help out the university sector by pointing out other potentially distressing books.

Here are some of the examples:

The Ancient Mariner, S. T. Coleridge University of Greenwich Content warning: Animal death, human death, supernatural possession

Persuasion, Jane Austen Aberdeen Portrays views of gender and class identity that are rooted in the context of early nineteenth-century England

The Waste Land, TS Eliot Aberdeen Contains references to death and war

The Iliad, Homer Highlands and Islands Violent close combat

Oliver Twist, Charles Dickens Royal Holloway Child abuse

Kidnapped, Robert Louis Stevenson Aberdeen Kidnapping [No! I'd never have guessed it would cover this subject]

The Murder of Roger Ackroyd, Agatha Christie Greenwich Contains murder [What! Shocked, I tell you, shocked]

And my favourite: The Bible York Shocking sexual violence

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/339af864-17ce-11ed-b1f4-627a202c7457 (Sorry, I don't have a share token for the article, but you can read it for nothing by signing up with your email address. That way you get to read a few free articles every month.)

So, what are your suggestions of content warnings for university students?

Here's mine:
The Very Hungry Caterpillar - contains description of an eating disorder and consequent physical discomfort

OP posts:
cakeorwine · 16/08/2022 08:10

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g

Have these books actually been 'banned' from reading lists or have they just had a 'content' warning - so people are aware that some of the themes might be challenging so they are prepared - especially if they have similar experiences

It seems to be the latter - so most of the books haven't been banned or withdrawn.

But people read the headline, read the spin on it and don't think about what has actually happened. Just designed to get a reaction.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/08/2022 08:57

@cakeorwine, of course the article was written to get a reaction. Not uncommon for the media to do this, surely? Some of the content warnings are reasonable and compassionate, e.g. the ones alerting students that sexual violence is a theme. I'm also prepared to believe that some universities responded to the FOI request in a naive way and handed over reading lists which didn't really have a content warning as much as an indication of why particular books were on the list and how they relate to the overall theme of a module. However, I stick to my view that it should be unnecessary to tell a UK undergraduate that suicide features in Romeo and Juliet, that The Iliad is about a war and is therefore very violent, and The Ancient Mariner mentions an animal death.

There's a balance to be struck between giving no thought to student welfare at all (which was pretty much how it was when I was at university in the early 1980s, and some people suffered badly from that, which was wrong) and being over-protective and consequently not making it possible for young people to learn resilience and coping mechanisms. I think as a society we err too much towards the latter now.

OP posts:
Newrumpus · 16/08/2022 09:13

I can’t believe how relaxed some posters are about this. It is the slow creep of censorship that we need to be alert to - even if you don’t want to read the book or you don’t approve it (probably especially if you don’t approve of it), if you value free speech and freedom in general then you should oppose any censorship. Excusing it, just allows it to escalate until it much harder to fight back against. Academics, on principle, should be opposed to censorship.

cakeorwine · 16/08/2022 09:13

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/08/2022 08:57

@cakeorwine, of course the article was written to get a reaction. Not uncommon for the media to do this, surely? Some of the content warnings are reasonable and compassionate, e.g. the ones alerting students that sexual violence is a theme. I'm also prepared to believe that some universities responded to the FOI request in a naive way and handed over reading lists which didn't really have a content warning as much as an indication of why particular books were on the list and how they relate to the overall theme of a module. However, I stick to my view that it should be unnecessary to tell a UK undergraduate that suicide features in Romeo and Juliet, that The Iliad is about a war and is therefore very violent, and The Ancient Mariner mentions an animal death.

There's a balance to be struck between giving no thought to student welfare at all (which was pretty much how it was when I was at university in the early 1980s, and some people suffered badly from that, which was wrong) and being over-protective and consequently not making it possible for young people to learn resilience and coping mechanisms. I think as a society we err too much towards the latter now.

It got a reaction from you.

CinnamonOrangeCremeBrulee · 16/08/2022 10:47

Newrumpus · 16/08/2022 09:13

I can’t believe how relaxed some posters are about this. It is the slow creep of censorship that we need to be alert to - even if you don’t want to read the book or you don’t approve it (probably especially if you don’t approve of it), if you value free speech and freedom in general then you should oppose any censorship. Excusing it, just allows it to escalate until it much harder to fight back against. Academics, on principle, should be opposed to censorship.

It's not censorship though is it? It's content warnings?TWO BOOKS were removed.

There is no central list of books that HAVE to be on reading lists, academic staff are given freedom to exercise their judgement regarding what is best for their module and teaching. Or are you saying we should not allow them that freedom?

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/08/2022 10:54

cakeorwine · 16/08/2022 09:13

It got a reaction from you.

And from you!

OP posts:
PollyRockets · 16/08/2022 10:56

This place becomes more like the daily fail comments section by the day

PassiveAgressiveQueen · 16/08/2022 10:59

Mydpisgrumpierthanyours · 10/08/2022 08:04

What I dont understand is surely going to university means you are 18+ so an adult who can make their own choices what to read?

exactly I doubt their porn comes with trigger warnings.

VoluptuaSneezelips · 16/08/2022 11:18

Oh no not conkers...will someone think of the children.
You cracked me up with this one, laughing so hard the cat has come over to sit on my keyboard make sure im alright. 😂

overitall1 · 16/08/2022 11:22

Dear god I was made to read Lord of the Flies and Day of the Triffids when I was 13/14. They gave me HORRENDOUS nightmares (I have a vivid imagination). Can you imagine what would be said now?

Kanaloa · 16/08/2022 11:38

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 16/08/2022 08:57

@cakeorwine, of course the article was written to get a reaction. Not uncommon for the media to do this, surely? Some of the content warnings are reasonable and compassionate, e.g. the ones alerting students that sexual violence is a theme. I'm also prepared to believe that some universities responded to the FOI request in a naive way and handed over reading lists which didn't really have a content warning as much as an indication of why particular books were on the list and how they relate to the overall theme of a module. However, I stick to my view that it should be unnecessary to tell a UK undergraduate that suicide features in Romeo and Juliet, that The Iliad is about a war and is therefore very violent, and The Ancient Mariner mentions an animal death.

There's a balance to be struck between giving no thought to student welfare at all (which was pretty much how it was when I was at university in the early 1980s, and some people suffered badly from that, which was wrong) and being over-protective and consequently not making it possible for young people to learn resilience and coping mechanisms. I think as a society we err too much towards the latter now.

How does saying ‘we are about to read Beloved - everyone please be aware it will contain graphic scenes of murder, including infanticide, extreme hate crime of course. plus sexual assault’ stop them from learning ‘resilience and coping mechanisms?’ They will still read the book, and resiliently cope with it.

The books have not been ‘censored’ or ‘banned.’ Two books have been replaced with ones more suitable for the course. That’s all that’s happened. English students are not lying sobbing on the floor and being coddled by the staff like it’s a nursery because they can’t manage through Romeo and Juliet. They’re simply being told what to expect. It’s a total non event.

SleeplessInEngland · 16/08/2022 11:59

overitall1 · 16/08/2022 11:22

Dear god I was made to read Lord of the Flies and Day of the Triffids when I was 13/14. They gave me HORRENDOUS nightmares (I have a vivid imagination). Can you imagine what would be said now?

They still read Lord of the Flies in school.

Pertinentowl · 16/08/2022 19:31

I’d like to see literature decolonised further, if a country was good enough to be invaded it should be good enough to produce literature, but speaking as a mixed raced person who did English literature the only thing we studied was things fall apart. And American studies which is arguably.. well, I don’t really know where it fits in because you can be colonised and be a coloniser at the same time.
at this point in my life I am resentful of how instinctively western centric my viewpoint is unless I actually challenge it, and it would do no harm at all to find books from further afield so other students don’t get trapped in the same web. I watched a program about decolonising architecture as well, they are having trouble letting go of training too. It’s so embedded in you.
Funny, books are my life and now I’m resentful of it. I crave other thought patterns that books could have provided me. No idea where to find them though.

Kanaloa · 16/08/2022 20:08

@Pertinentowl

If it’s any small comfort (not sure when you did your degree) there is far, far more diversity now than there was. We had to do a first year module (mandatory for all incoming students) about works impacted by colonisation plus I had the choice of lots of brilliant modules on topics like African & African diaspora literature. We studied Indian surrealist literature, Iranian poetry, modern African literature and so on. Literature degrees are (finally, finally) becoming less western centric.

We did still do Chinua Achebe though! Hard to avoid.

Madmama10 · 16/08/2022 20:53

I work in a library. This is shocking. We have some very interesting titles in stock. The most challenging I find are some of our art books especially the ones on performance art. However, they're are not locked away. We also bave books on psycho sexual therapy so now I know how long a person can wait before seeking medical attention due to foreign bodies being stuck in their rectum. Libraries are dangerous intriguing places where you can learn many things. And people think books are dull!

Kanaloa · 16/08/2022 21:06

Madmama10 · 16/08/2022 20:53

I work in a library. This is shocking. We have some very interesting titles in stock. The most challenging I find are some of our art books especially the ones on performance art. However, they're are not locked away. We also bave books on psycho sexual therapy so now I know how long a person can wait before seeking medical attention due to foreign bodies being stuck in their rectum. Libraries are dangerous intriguing places where you can learn many things. And people think books are dull!

They’re also not locked away in the uni library. They simply include a warning to students about to study books so they are prepared for the themes and topics included.

It is interesting how books have no age limit though, isn’t it? I’ve never heard anyone really mention that at all. I remember reading a certain book aged about 11. I was quite an advanced reader and liked to read adult fiction rather than only kids stuff. I bought the book in Waterstones with my own money. I then, about a year later, saw the DVD in a shop, and went to buy it only to be told it was rated 18 and of course I couldn’t be allowed to buy it. I remember thinking ‘well I already know everything that happens anyway!’

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