To be shocked at how common gaslighting is

[crochetmonkey74]

Out and healed from a relationship where gaslighting was a problem in the last few months (fuelled by cowardice on his part)
Am dating again, some successes, some not so much but the thing I have noticed is that gaslighting is so so common. Over really trivial things. (Who said they would call first is one example) I'm not talking about genuine mistakes here, I'm common sense enough to know the difference. In the example above, an online date was reluctant to arrange a real life call, didn't do it, we rearranged and then he didn't reply to the arrangement. Couple of days later he messaged as if nothing was wrong. When I said in polite terms he had been too flaky and clearly didn't want to move on from the constant messaging, he made a story up about how I had got the dates wrong, he only wanted to fit in with me etc etc. When I replied with a screenshot to prove that was all bollocks, he said "fair enough, worth a shot" as if the gaslighting was a thing he'd been caught out in!!!
He is just one in a line of varying degrees of it. I'm a teacher and even at school we are trying to tackle the easy way boys slip into lying or massaging the truth (also more to female teachers) whereas girls tend to tell a story more like the truth.
I'm not bothered or invested about this guy in particular, we were only at the chatting stage, I'm more shocked at how prevalent GL is!

Happens all the time & spills over into work. Worked for someone who did this constantly so he and his side kick could get away with bullying and lying about me to their manager without facing consequences. Constant denial when confronted with facts - don't remember that been the favourite.

I agree with this analysis.

girls/women do it as well.

unfortunately dd15 does it to me (sadly learnt from her dad, my ex)

she’s not very good at it and I call it out every single time but it’s hurtful

I think gaslighting has 2 components: 1) lying and then when caught 2) blaming the other person to avoid admitting the lie. So denying the event ever happened, making up a plausible alternative solution and acting as if you truly believe that's what happened, claiming the other party said/did something they didn't....
It's the second bit that's so infuriating as it's extremely disrespectful and also takes advantage of people's tendency to see nuance/accept responsibility

Was there any indication that girls don't do it too?

This is the problem. Its not "clever" to lie, it's dishonest. People who are honest aren't stupid. If everyone lied whenever it suited them, society would break down.

Also, it's not a good long term strategy. Lying and gaslighting might work in the short term but in the long term you lose the trust of the other person as they figure out what you are doing.

Unfortunately I agree with op, once you've been on the receiving end of systematic gaslighting you see it everywhere.

It's not gender specific, it's just that "playing games" has always been an acceptable part of a woman's arsenal and now men are catching on to how effective it can be too. It's not that the problem is worse now, just that there is more awareness.

"I'm a teacher and even at school we are trying to tackle the easy way boys slip into lying or massaging the truth (also more to female teachers) whereas girls tend to tell a story more like the truth'

I would see 'telling a story more like the truth' as lying as well, unless the story is 11% the truth. I'm wondering if you're more inclined to view dishonest behaviour more negatively from boys than from girls. As a teacher myself, I know boys will try it on with female teachers more and girls will try it on with male teachers more.

I don't think lying and gaslighting are the same - kids will lie to try and get out of trouble, but gaslighting is more when someone is trying to gain power over you, make it seem like whatever happened is your fault and make you doubt yourself.

I feel like in general people fib and lie way too easily and honesty is no longer a very strong value - so many times on MN people's advice is to lie to get out of things - eg pretend you have COVID if you have unwanted visitors, or that your child is busy if you don't want them to go to a party etc. I find it really strange as lying was a deeply serious misdemeanour in my family/school when younger and I wonder if it's no longer treated as such.

What? Men have learnt gaslighting from women? What twaddle

Some not very nice humans lie and gaslight. The recommended strategy is to avoid

Agreed

I'm wondering if you're more inclined to view dishonest behaviour more negatively from boys than from girls
Definitely not, as I said before it's a school wide focus for us, not a personal response

Nope there wasn’t, and I wasn’t arguing just stating my experience.

I’m well aware that gaslighting behaviour/playing games occurs in females.

I was just sad that my own daughter does it to me

Like others said, gaslighting is different to lying. It has a specific purpose which is more sinister.

People have a habit of throwing germs around like narcissism, gaslighting, anxiety etc without understanding what they mean. If someone is being nasty, they are automatically called a narcissist. If someone is lazy and doesn’t want to do something, they have anxiety all of a sudden. Anyone lying nowadays must be gaslighting others.

I think people just find these words trendy and use then without understanding them to sound all learned and well read.

I think people just find these words trendy and use then without understanding them to sound all learned and well read
I think that's really reductive and patronising.
People don't need to gatekeep, maybe people aren't jumping on the bandwagon, or getting it wrong. Maybe now there's more awareness, people have a name for what they've been experiencing and can get support.

Thank you! I agree!

Gaslighting is thrown out there far too easily these days. There’s being deceitful such as claiming you didn’t say or do something purely because you’re too cowardly to deal with the consequences, and there’s sustained mental torture to the point where the victim questions their own sanity. The latter is gaslighting. The former is being a coward.

The very nature of gaslighting means that it can’t really be used to describe a one-off or a trivial incident. It’s a prolonged, calculated form of mental abuse. I’ve seen on here posters telling an OP her husband was gaslighting because he told the OP he didn’t like the new outfit she had bought and that it made her look fat. Sure, it’s not kind to say that. Could even be labeled as hurtful or upsetting but it’s a million miles from gaslighting, especially as it may even have been true (just not what the OP wanted to hear).

My DS thinks that a plausible version of events is philosophically the same as the actual truth if noone can prove otherwise and hasn't compunction about lying.

This is what I dealt with at school. It was always the boys (in my experience). And so common in my last school, that is definitely one of the reasons i left. I hate it.