The elite in the UK are too comfortable too make the changes needed to improve the health and wellbeing of the nation.

[Wisteriahills]

I'm just back from visiting in-laws in Japan and was blown away by health system. One morning my mother-in-law was feeling dizzy and nauseous. By 10am she had taken herself to the local hospital (5 mins walk), had an MRI, bloods and a drip and was back home for 3 with the all-clear. She's almost 80 and is amazingly fit and health - came to a theme park with us and went on the rollercoasters. She has regular check-ups (annual) to see if there are cancer markers, and can access treatment at any time on demand. There is a small co-payment requirement (I think she paid £10).

In contrast, coming home - my mother is very unwell but has no diagnosis. She has had to wait 3 weeks for bloods, and her consultant's appointment has come through for next May. She has given up almost, and I am now looking at whether I should go private for her.

Looking at the stats on the Japanese health system, it is within 5% of the UK in terms of expenditure per capita. There seem to be some very different approaches though: all hospitals are required by law to be non-profit making, AND to be run by a doctor. There are far more doctors per capita, and there are not the same barriers to becoming a specialist/consultant as there in the UK (i.e. I think the consultancy system here can disadvantage patients). The number of beds per capita is much higher too.

I also have read that post-war, when Japan was on its knees and there was very short life expectancy, the government made a push to invest in the health of the next generation, driven by a desire never to be conquered again. This means that all primary school children are encouraged/forced to eat a nutritionally balanced lunch in the classroom with their teacher - this is seen as a fundamental part of education. Kids are required to get themselves to school on foot/by bike and physical exercise is a bigger part of the curriculum. They also clean the school, taking it in turns.

I am not saying it's a nirvana, there are many negatives as well, but my point is wouldn't it be smart to look at where things work in other countries and see where it may be possible to implement some of those smarter things?

My AIBU to think there is a conflation of vested interests, short-termism and some kind of pride/feeling of supremacy that stops us seriously learning from other (especially non European) systems. Why are we not smarter at searching out systemic solutions for our health system crisis? Or is it that the ruling classes are just too comfortable in the UK? What causes our myopia?

YABU.

Japan is a gerontocracy that’s economically shafted itself with its emphasis on old people and treatment of young people.

Everything comes at a cost. I’m my view old people need to pay much much more themselves so working families can keep more of their earnings and have a tiny chance of having a lifestyle equivalent to their parents’.

This means that all primary school children are encouraged/forced to eat a nutritionally balanced lunch in the classroom with their teacher - this is seen as a fundamental part of education. Kids are required to get themselves to school on foot/by bike and physical exercise is a bigger part of the curriculum. They also clean the school, taking it in turns.
Can you imagine trying to introduce this in the UK where when the government and jamie o tried to introduce healthy eating in school the uproar and pushback! And telling families and kids they were to clean the school?...

I feel like they won’t search for solutions unless their rich cronies will benefit.

There is a feeling of superiority in this country and as soon as someone points out that something is better in another country (eg childcare and education in Sweden) people look for a way to disprove it.

Also people are resistant to change even when it will have a long term benefit. For example cycle lanes were installed in our city only to be removed when people complained.

There is a small co-payment requirement (I think she paid £10).

is this for each treatment, eg GP and hospital visit etc?

Where is the opposition to even small payment here do you think? I’m not sure it’s a vote winner for the public

Maybe those on higher income would want it more - but those on lower pay, who might need higher amount of healthcare, would struggle

I’m used to a small payment (Aus) so not against it just wondering where main resistance is

This means that all primary school children are encouraged/forced to eat a nutritionally balanced lunch in the classroom with their teacher - this is seen as a fundamental part of education. Kids are required to get themselves to school on foot/by bike and physical exercise is a bigger part of the curriculum. They also clean the school, taking it in turns.

This will appeal to some sections, but they are more likely to be already doing it anyway. It would take a big cultural shift for others - how would you go about it?

I don’t think it sounds bad I think resistance is generally with public for those two things though

I think if you have Japanese in-laws you will know well how much the culture has led to the systems that are in place there, including the health system. In the UK we have fed a system and culture of capitalism and poverty. A huge gap in both money and motivation. Japan doesnt have that. Plus the expectations on individuals would never ever be accepted here. In the UK we are very entitled and self focused which is not how things work in Japan.

There are plenty of flaws in Japan too but how society functions overall is not one of them! I certainly agree with that (putting aside some of the compromises to get to that society, the role of women for example. Though again, that is not as straightforward as people think).

What we are getting in the UK is a two-tier system - more and more people are going private if they can possibly afford to. However, many of the private facilities and personnel also provide NHS services so this pushes people back on NHS waiting lists, and even some private procedures have waiting lists, but shorter ones. It's a mess.

Japan’s health care system is based on universal insurance. You have to take out insurance - it’s the law. There’s a government scheme if you don’t have it from your employee. Poorer families don’t pay anything, but wealthier families have to pay up to 1/3 of their fees.

i think lots of wealthy people in this county would be more then happy to pay for a scheme like this, but I think there would be outrage in this country if this was suggested as it would be called privatisation.

So totally disagree OP with the suggestion wealthy people in this country are too comfortable to pay for something like this.

In Japan you also don’t have the huge burdens on the social care system. Families look after their elderly. Again the wealthy in this country might not be looked after by their family but they are paying for very expensive care homes privately.

There are imo two reasons why we don’t look round at other countries that seem to be doing better, such as Scandinavia on childcare. Here we work to the principle ‘for the few not the many’, a capitalist society where apparently anyone can better themselves if they just put in the effort (see also The American Dream). This is why energy companies are not being more controlled. And number two we are Great Britain aren’t we, how can anywhere else be better than us? Impossible.

I think people are too individualistic here. Which is why you won’t get high mask wearing and why mandating healthy meals wouldn’t work.

Many of our politicians have no real stake in the NHS or education system as they have private medicine and their children go to private schools, as they did. They have no real experience of sitting in A and E for hours or their children in large classes, or children with additional needs being unsupported as they can just buy assistance.

I don’t follow your point about ‘the elites’

do you mean that because they don’t experience hospital waits, they don’t press for change?

I think there is some merit in that. You don’t appreciate how life changing bad health and long NHS waits can be when you’ve got BUPA at your disposal

but I don’t know of any private schools which force children to eat in the classroom with the teacher and then clean the school, so I’m not sure that works as an extension

Completely agree with your thread title.

Your post is more complicated and I can't agree with every sentence.

Do think there's much to be admired in the system you describe, not that straightforward though.

I think the "elites" just don't care really.