Wondering why there's so much hate for teachers?

[Nannyogg134]

I've just been reading some responses to another thread concerning teachers and working over summer and there's a real mix of thoughts. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I'm always very taken back by the amount of negative comments regarding teachers (especially regarding workload and school holidays.)

I've taught in a state secondary school for almost 13 years and I came to the job after working in a care home for a few years. There are pros and cons; the school holidays are great (and yes, they are unpaid- teachers are paid per day of their contract, this is term time only, the wage is delivered over 12 monthly payments for ease of life.) However, there is no flexibility, so I rarely see my own children in sport's day, nativities, or even on parent's evening (if it clashes with something at my school.) Overall, I feel very passionately about giving my best to my students and extra time I spend on them feels mostly worthwhile.

However, whenever there is chat about teaching, the general feeling seems to be very negative. I'm just wondering where this seems to come from? Is it the classic 'horrible teacher' stereotype we see on TV etc.? Or is it a leftover from some of our own school days?

I suppose it's not really AIBU, more of a wondering where this issue comes from and if public view can ever be shifted?

my DC son got a 15 min morning catchup and given a worksheet that took at most an hour to do (worksheet was from an external company and not what the teacher had put together

many powerpoints/resources/lessons etc are taken from external companies in schools. It doesn't mean it's lesser quality, if it fits into the curriculum and is age appropriate what is the problem? It is highly unrealistic that teachers would make all resources from scratch.

These statements are always made with an air of disbelief. "It doesn't happen at my school so is therefore very stange"

I can assure you it is very much the case. It was my youngests first year in school last year and other than two five minute parents night phone calls I have never spoken to her and have never spoken to her face to face. We are no allowed to approach teachers after school etc.

There are two deputy heads, one for the junior school and one for the senior school. I imagine they are very busy but as I have said before it is a really good school and I have had nothing to complain about at all so have never had reason to contact the school at all beyond checking the expiration dates on my DC's allergy medication.

*spoken to her teacher...obviously have spoken to DD!

@ScarlettOHaraHamiltonKennedyButler what communication do you get about how your child is doing, what they are doing in class, curriculum etc? Does your school have parent forums where the head/governors talk about various topics and parents can give their views. Parent view is an important aspect of school life and Ofsted will want to know (assuming you are in England)

@toomuchlaundry

Given the responses on this thread I dont think thats true at all.

Lots of oh that never happens and lots of denials that any school could be less than perfect.

Oh and of course the gold standard teachers judge parents who complain.

I think there is a lot of conflating annoyance at schools and the education system with annoyance at teachers by both teachers and parents.

The use of schools by governments to try and enforce social change naturally puts them in the middle of conflict. Parents are required to educate their children and put in a position where school is the only practical way. But they often find that schooling at odds with their own values and goals. Teachers (and parents) don’t seem to have much social science training on the impact of schools’ role as agents of the state or on the wider ethical view points of coercing families in the way that they do. So there is little acknowledgment or active handling of the conflict it generates.

Which bit isn't true @Topgub?

@toomuchlaundry

That parental views are important

Bearing in mind a questionnaire is sent to parents as soon as Ofsted announce they are coming to a school, parent view is quite important! Included in that questionnaire is a question about if you have a concern, was it dealt with well. Another question is, does the school let you know how your child is doing. I assume a school that doesn't let you speak/contact the class teacher at any time will not do well with those questions. Inspectors also try to speak to parents too, which obviously is easier at Primary compared to Secondary. There is also an option for parents to send in messages about the school.

If a school has less than 50% positive feedback on parents recommending the school in that questionnaire, that can seriously impact a grading a school gets.

By the way, that questionnaire can be filled in anytime, not just when Ofsted arrives. There should be a link somewhere on the school website or you can just go into the parent view Ofsted website and pick your school. Can make interesting reading!

I fully accept there are good schools and not so good schools, and I also accept there are good teachers and bad teachers, but I do not believe that teachers in general should have got the bashing on here that they did during lockdown and that they still get now.

Lots of oh that never happens and lots of denials that any school could be less than perfect.

All teachers know that there are mediocre, bad and terrible schools. Many of us have worked in them and know their failings only too well!

I've worked in schools I disliked or considered bad. And I've known of plenty by reputation. What I've never heard of is a school that's considered bad because of its teachers (in general/ en masse). Any bad school I've known of has been considered bad because of its leadership or because of its pupil intake. Any school can have the odd poor teacher (no job has only excellent employees), but that's not what makes a school bad (unless it's a tiny primary with only a few teachers).

Topgub

Lots of oh that never happens and lots of denials that any school could be less than perfect.

I haven't seen that on the thread but I have seen you try and twist things to make it say that.

@FrippEnos

I havent twisted anything

Thanks Geeky, that's what I thought. So what a load of tosh re ppl complaint it's only for so many days. I don't get paid for 365 days on my "annual ' salary either - I get my monthly salary and I work x hours pw. Same as teachers except that they get 3 X the holidays in their 'annual' sum.

I had a landlady once and I just knew months before she actually told us that she was teacher. Had that classic superiority mixed with judgey air and just in general totally spoke to us like we were pupils not tenants. They seem to get this tiny bit of authority and it totally goes to their heads. One of my kids current school seems to employ only those types with the head being the main wicked witch of the East.

@Sunnyqueen and you send your children there, when you obviously hate it so much?

@Turtlerunner Teachers get 5.6 weeks of annual leave like other jobs. The rest are school closure weeks. If you get ill during the school holidays you get 2 days back for every 5 days you were ill, only if it was an annual leave week. If it was a school closure week you get nothing back as it’s not a contracted week.

I have a relative who works for the DWP. She was on annual leave two weeks ago but fell ill, got all 5 days back and was able to move her annual leave to this past week. Every job I’ve worked in prior to teaching has also had this same policy of giving you your annual leave back on a day-for-day basis if you were unwell during it.

This also affects supply teachers who get paid a small amount of holiday pay for every day they work. The holiday pay is based on annual leave allowance (5.6 weeks) and not the number of weeks schools are on holiday each year.

My DDs class teacher left the school , for summer term she had a TA teaching her most of the week on a shit salary. I felt sorry for the TA having all that responsibility the school should have paid for a supply teacher.

@Fifife there probably wasn't any money left or any supply teachers available (as there is a retention crisis)

Same with other jobs in my experience, you get annual leave back but not bank holidays if you’re sick. Just that teachers get more ‘bank holidays’

@PeachCottonTree You get your minimum holidays guaranteed, and the rest of the school closure time you can schedule your working hours as you see fit. That still doesn't make the contract pro rata, it just makes it a little different to most other standard contracts.

I'm nearly 50, I've been employed in multiple industries, and I've never worked anywhere that gives you holidays back if you're sick during them. DWP is civil service, maybe it's one of those weird things that only exists in public sector employment?

@GeekyThings

You get it in the nhs too. But as pp said not for pH.

Does my nut in actually. What a waste of money.

The point wasn’t that it was lesser quality but all they could manage was a worksheet they didn’t even do. I get it’s hard and not the norm but it was to point out the lack of effort by some

@Topgub Private sector employment is very different! You 'earn' your holidays by number of hours worked - so if I work a full month I get just over 2 full days worth of hours I can use for my holidays. You can still accrue them on maternity or if you're signed off on sick, but you don't get them back if you're sick while you're off.

You also have to pay them back if you leave that employment and you used more than you'd accrued - so if you took two weeks off in March but then resigned and left in May, you'd have the number of hours difference taken out of your final month's pay.

I am in England and that is not the pay scale used in most schools in England.

@GeekyThings I never said it was pro rata, I was simply pointing out that there are certain weeks that are not counted as holidays and not paid as such. It’s the same for maternity leave, school closure weeks aren’t included in the calculations when working out how much annual leave you’re owed.

I’ve worked in the private, third and public sectors and the HR policy has always been the same regarding giving you your annual leave days back if you’ve been ill. Thankfully I’ve never needed to use it but have had colleagues who have benefitted in all sectors.