Wondering why there's so much hate for teachers?

[Nannyogg134]

I've just been reading some responses to another thread concerning teachers and working over summer and there's a real mix of thoughts. I know that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I'm always very taken back by the amount of negative comments regarding teachers (especially regarding workload and school holidays.)

I've taught in a state secondary school for almost 13 years and I came to the job after working in a care home for a few years. There are pros and cons; the school holidays are great (and yes, they are unpaid- teachers are paid per day of their contract, this is term time only, the wage is delivered over 12 monthly payments for ease of life.) However, there is no flexibility, so I rarely see my own children in sport's day, nativities, or even on parent's evening (if it clashes with something at my school.) Overall, I feel very passionately about giving my best to my students and extra time I spend on them feels mostly worthwhile.

However, whenever there is chat about teaching, the general feeling seems to be very negative. I'm just wondering where this seems to come from? Is it the classic 'horrible teacher' stereotype we see on TV etc.? Or is it a leftover from some of our own school days?

I suppose it's not really AIBU, more of a wondering where this issue comes from and if public view can ever be shifted?

Topgub
Not really, there were lots of lazy parents during lockdown.

Felixsmama

When the medical staff quite rightly whinged (to used the MN term) that they were expected to go in to a crowded room with no protection at all, they were backed by the country, when teachers did the same they were called work shy.

Education has been damaged by successive governments before the pandemic, the pandemic showed how little a lot of other people thought of teachers.

@SirChenjins where are you that the salary is 42 after 5 years guaranteed? I’m UPS1 in my 7th year, have moved up every year as expected and my salary is just under 39 so a take home of around 2100 after pension and student loan are taken?

On here attitudes were particularly bad.

If anyone said they couldn't wait until schools open again because they were stressed by trying to work full time at home while also homeschooling DC (or entertaining them when home school provision was crap) as well as dealing with DC missing friends etc. they were accused by many teachers on here of just not wanting to look after their own children. In fact this line is often trotted out when parents don't want schools to close for more lockdowns/because it's too hot/because it's too cold etc.

Or lets not forget also during lockdown the 'well what would you usually do for childcare when schools are closed, they aren't there for childcare you know' that was also often trotted out.....well the would usually go to afterschool club (closed due to covid), go to their grandparents (illegal) or to a friends house (also illegal).

@Felixsmama I'm not sure that's strictly accurate, tbh. Because (as I stated earlier, and got the usual but NOOOOs in response, even though it's the truth) teachers aren't just paid for directed hours. They're paid for directed hours, and also other hours it reasonably takes them to fulfill their teaching obligations, so things like marking and prep work. There are even reminders that they shouldn't work over 48 hours unless they opt out of the working time directive, which is always stated in the presumption that they will indeed be working more than 6 or 7 hours of directed time a day!

It's just that it's expected the majority of the work will be compressed into around 9 or 10 months of the year; they're still expected to average out across an entire year pretty similarly in terms of hours as people in comparable occupations (medicine, engineering, things that require a certain level of qualifications and taking on of responsibility).

Re pay. People assume I'm on a huge salary for teaching at college. the reality is that after 15 years, the FTE for my job is £34k. That is after a recent pay review, it was £29 - £30k for years. Not poverty level pay but hardly riches either. We get 7 weeks off plus Christmas. Yes, it's more than the minimum but as people have said, after working for a career you expect more than the minimum, it's not a race to the bottom and nowhere near the 13 weeks in Barbados that people stereotype us with.

ScarlettOHaraHamiltonKennedyButler

they were accused by many teachers on here of just not wanting to look after their own children.

Teachers here should be changed to posters. to make it correct, in fact it was pointed out many times that some teachers were in exactly the same position and they were also asked 'well what would you usually do for childcare when schools are closed, they aren't there for childcare you know' that was also often trotted out.....well the would usually go to afterschool club (closed due to covid), go to their grandparents (illegal) or to a friends house (also illegal).**

@bigfootisreal

How are you defining lazy?

And how have you managed to decide that my kids teachers would be justify in complaining that I was?

SirChenjins

If we look at the salary - £42336 guaranteed after 5 years

I would love to know were this is. M1 to M6 is at least 5 years + UP1 to 3 is four years (unless they have taken the year were you can't progress from 1 to 2 out) which is still 3 years.

@ScarlettOHaraHamiltonKennedyButler

Yeah I wasn't on mumsnet during the pandemic but was on other forums and the comments from some teachers were pretty awful

As was their basic inability to understand data and risk

@FrippEnos

Which medical staff did that?

That would be the nurses at the start of the first lockdown that were expected to go in with no PPE.

If we look at the salary-£42336 guaranteed after 5 years

When you say things like that as if they were fact, it does beg the question as to what else you are just making up.

There's vast differences from school to school and even country to country

yes but mn is mostly British and the complaints and problems with teaching and teacher retention is mainly an English problem, such numbers resigning from the profession is not seen in Ireland, Scotland, Wales and NI. Simply because England is the only 1 that has Ofsted, the others have inspection bodies but they are nowhere as near as tough as Ofsted.

Plus I would say that whilst English schools are all different in ways they all have ofsted on their back so it's pretty much universally a tough gig to teach in them.

*People also know teachers.

They know the effort (or lack of) that they put in.

The myth that every teacher works 80 hours term time and at least half of the the holidays is exactly that, myth*

How does any1 know exactly what another does though? They can tell you 1 thing and do another. Also where is the myth that they ALL work half of holidays-it differs.

Also again there is nobody that says all teachers work 80 hours a week, it does differ but teaching is still a brutal job for many. If it wasn't then why do so many leave the profession in England;it's pretty high.

@FrippEnos

All of them?

Huh.

None of the nurses I know whinged about not having ppe

In fact a fair few (not on covid wards) were resistant to needing ppe for every pt contact.

Still are

In the same way you did.

@SurfBox

Well yes.

That was exactly my point when I said between countries.

England isn't the only country in Britain.

that you don't remember says a lot about your bias.

@bigfootisreal

That makes no sense.

You know literally nothing about me.

I know exactly what was happening in my kids school at that time. My complaints were justified

@FrippEnos

What do you mean dont remember?

I've just told you that wasn't my experience. I've not forgotten.

Some may have. Some did. And not just nurses

You cant moan about 'not all teachers' and then lump all nurses or medical staff as one

I think most people have also seen their own workload increase massively over the last couple of decades, it’s not just teachers, and I think most people are well aware it’s not a 9-3 job. If we look at the salary - £42336 guaranteed after 5 years - this would equate to roughly the top of a B7 salary for a lead nurse or ward manager, or an SHO on the 4th point (based on hours worked over a year). These levels takes much longer than 5 years to reach with an extremely high level of responsibility, scrutiny and depth/breadth of role spec

I'm not saying most people have not seen work increases but people look at teachers and see the holiodays and 9-3 hours and don't take into consideration everything else. Plus the big salaries are much harder to get than you think, many schools these days are run on the cheap and once a teacher becomes expensive they are forced out. Many schools have young staff and it's becoming rarer to find those over 40/late 30s teaching full timetables these days. I know as I worked supply circuit for years.

www.eis.org.uk/pay-and-conditions-of-service/salary-scales

Unless the EIS are making up the pay scales.

*Well yes.

That was exactly my point when I said between countries.

England isn't the only country in Britain*

yes but my point was that the vast majority of the teaching crisis we generally see in the media are related to England and likewise the majority of mners who moan/tell the truth about the profession are in the English system as they usually refer to the Ofsted. Before Ofsted, England really was no different to teaching in other countries.

And you know nothing about teachers either but that doesn't stop you. Many teacher's complaints are also justified of parents like you.

@SurfBox

Uhuh

Thats exactly the point I'm making.

I'm not sure why you're not getting it.

England is a different country to Scotland. Scotland is a different country to Wales.

Teaching appears to be less stressful in Scotland or Wales.

So its different from country to country.