What would make you consider working in NHS admin right now?

[Helpmethinkofasolution]

I have never known things as bad as this. Job getting no applicants, successful applicants regularly turning down jobs and then us having to go back to the start in terms of recruitment.
When I started in 2018 I remember there were 200 applicants for most band 4 jobs. Where are those people now and what is going to attract people to apply again?

Is it post Covid wariness of the NHS? Is it that we used to be flexible but now WFH jobs are even more flexible? Is it that the private sector is paying more? To my (possibly un- observant) eye, it doesn't seem like there are loads of admin jobs out there offering much more money. Unless it's that there is less responsibility with these private sector admin roles.

We used to get a good stream of working mums (generally) who would appreciate an interesting and flexible job with good sick pay, annual leave and ok pension but they are no longer applying.
This won't be used in any recruitment campaign, I'm just genuinely interested (and bloody worried that I'll be doing six peoples jobs forever!)

I looked at some public sector roles when I was job seeking a while ago.

Most have ridiculously complicated application processes compared to covering letter and CV for private sector jobs.

I applied to do NYS bank admin when I was applying for jobs after a break as a stay at home mum. I had 11 years admin experience at a university but didn’t have a fast enough typing speed. I know audio typing is a very useful skill in a lot of admin jobs, but I’m surprised there aren’t any where it’s not essential.
I ended up back at a university, which was much more flexible, so probably for the best.
£22-25k is very standard and not bad for an admin role outside London, i rarely saw any advertised for more than £18k round here and the list of responsibilities was bonkers!

NHS not NYS

These jobs are/were mostly filled by young women. Many young women are now doing beauty / nails careers and even dare I say OnlyFans work which are flexible and more lucrative than admin jobs.

I think parking costs are a big factor, as well as a culture of jobs for pals of the managers, incompetence in senior management and a culture of bullying.

The salary at £22k-£25k is low for a person to live off alone, fine maybe for a married person with a higher earning spouse.

Also, there’s often no flexibility in being able to work from home in these jobs. You have to commute, pay to park then sit in a hot, germ-ridden stuffy hospital all day.

I don’t know what the answer is, it seems like a big problem and only going to get worse.

Is the recruitment time frame as slow for admin jobs as it is for NA jobs in NHS? That could well be a factor. My daughter applied as a NA in NHS during summer of 2020 but didn't get to start til the December. Same happened this year to a colleague who has just moved on to work for NHS. Many people can't wait to start for months after being accepted for a job.

It's extremely slow

You poor thing. Are you familiar with your organisation's sickness policy? Because you should be supported through sickness, not put on a warning. What does that actually entail?

I would say some of it is that people are being asked to come into the office when they really don’t need to. I was offered two band 7 posts and both could easily be done from home yet the manager of one of the jobs insisted I was in 5 days a week. With that in mind, I said yes to the second job 🤷‍♀️ Since covid, I’ve started taking more care of my well-being and since my husband works from home too, we can see each other more which suits us. Recruiters need to think about what the candidate wants before advertising.

It's not as bad as it sounds, yes I'm supported. As in I'm asked if I need help. However, the fact is I'm on a warning. You get 3 warnings and you're out.

I stupidly struggled into work after one day so I didn't let people down. It doesn't matter if it is one day or one month. It comes down to how many times you are off. I know this now so when this warning is wiped and I'm ill in future, I won't be back until I'm 100%

Second job was fully WFH in case that wasn’t clear!!

I'll take a band 7 😆

I remember it was incidences of sickness that were counted so people would often add on a few extra days recovery time because it would still only count as one if that makes sense. I remember that "I'm ill but am I Ill enough to use up one of this years sick days, what if I get something worse" feeling.

£22k? Ouch. For context that is what we pay entry level roles in my org in northern Ireland. This is for people fresh out of school/uni. They can do all the training they have appetite for (think PRINCE2 etc, even paid masters) and can reasonably expect to be on £29k within two years and £45k two years after that (with an extra £13k/year bonus) if they get their head down and progress to manager within that four years. We work from home 3-4 days a week, have a good pension, flexible working and bonuses.

I just think the proposition is probably quite shit for anyone dynamic who wants to progress.

Also I've just googled and our PA roles in England, not sure about NI, average at about £37k.

I should also add we have no degree requirement!

Interesting - I've recently moved back to NI after many years in England. I'm still working for my England-based company (now fully remote with the odd trip across the pond) but have been looking around and am shocked at the difference in salaries between England and NI. There was one role I saw that would have been at least £50k in my company, probably quite a bit more. They were offering £28k. It was full time office-based (no WFH or hybrid) and required a lot of specialist knowledge and responsibility (and possibly an FCA SMF function).

It's good to know that there are better-paying companies around but I haven't found them yet

Re the original question - I know quite a few people who do non-clinical NHS roles in England and Wales and all of them without exception are pretty miserable and badly overworked due to understaffing. Some of them have had to jump through hoops to be allowed to WFH one day a week. Two of them stay because their roles are quite specialised and it's hard to find an equivalent in private healthcare or other industries. One of them is retraining as a way out. I don't work in admin but there are non-clinical NHS roles I could do, but I don't think I'd even consider it given how miserable a picture they have all painted.

There’s such a difference in the level of responsibility even between 4s in various functions. I’m an 8a with a team of 10 in a non-clinical role and the 4s that I have are young, entry level new graduates that are just getting in.

A person that could happily do a 4 longer term definitely doesn’t need a degree but unfortunately that’s the benchmark HR seems to look at now. A career administrative professional is worth their weight in gold, but they get overlooked for graduates.

I have open positions for a 4 and a 5 at the moment.

Please give examples of these approx 30k admin roles people are finding? As like the OP I’ve never seen an admin salary high yet than 25k near me and I would jump at the chance to work in an admin job that is well paid and you can progress.

The situation is dire. Salaries just do not compare. My team have vacancies at band 3/4 that just cannot fill. We get loads of applications, but invariably they are from applicants in Africa and don't have a visa, and won't get one for a role such as this.

A recent role closed with two applicants. One from Nigeria and no visa so weeded straight out. The other had an application so dire it was sifted out.

The crux is the NHS is in a competitive market and the commercial market is working but the NHS can't just increase salaries

I worked in admin for NHS for 10 years initially band 4 then band 5 (same role but reassessed because of reorganisation). I loved the job but honestly found the NHS one of the most uncaring employers I have ever worked for. There’s a serious lack of empathy among managers within the organisation. My husband had a stroke and I had to fight to get special leave of 3 days to care for him when he was discharged from hospital. My manager’s only concern was that my work would not get done. So nothing would make me work for them again.

Well for one thing 20-25k is a bloody low salary, even for a new graduate. Why should ‘mums’ apply for a role with crap pay, probably stressful circumstances and no flexibility around WFH etc. I’d expect only people with seriously limited options to apply tbh, I’m not surprised.

This. Even up north that isn't a good salary for what I know will be a demanding and stressful job.

I’m on £28k FTE as a Band 5 NHS admin and I WFH but I appreciate that I’m very lucky to have that, despite feeling underpaid as there are lots of admin people paid way less than me

Can someone please tell me where you find these jobs over 25k seriously I can’t see anything but admin jobs that are 20-25k usually 20-23! I’m clearly looking on the wrong sites!

I am working as NHS admin and want to leave. I line manage 4 people and am band 3. Pay is crap and I keep having more and more work added. When we had 3 vacant posts due to sickness and people leaving I was expected to do 4 jobs at once and I work part time.

Insistence on being in the office core business hours even though NHS is 24/7