To feel part time workers get a raw deal when it comes to progression

[shouldbesleepingnotscrolling]

I went part time after I had my first baby, my employer that I have been with for nearly 10 years wouldn't let me reduce my hours in the current role where I had a small team I managed, so I had to take the only position available in a different department, not managerial but same pay, pro rata'd.

I have since not had any opportunities to use previous transferable skills, promotions or go back to managing, job sharing will not be considered with other part time members. Even when I have been putting in extra hours and taking on additional work and responsibilities.

So I thought Id look outside the company, there are barely any part time roles available that aren't entry level, most are MW. Ive contacted local recruitment agencies and searched online.

My options seem to be stay in a job with no progression or recognition or take something on less pay at entry level with the hope there may be a chance to progress eventually.

My AIBU is to think there doesn't seem to be any decent opportunities for someone willing to work hard with good experience or am I just doing something wrong?

It depends entirely on your job and sector. I’m no high flyer but earn a decent salary over 3 days. I’ve been given progression, projects and responsibilities and my manager and I work closely together.

However I’m an accountant working as a finance manager and it’s a job that lends itself to part time work very well - no shortage of well paid senior positions.

I think that shift can occur in full time workers as well. People's priorities can change when their personal circumstances change. I would never make assumptions about how committed people were on the basis of how many hours they worked - I have had some incredibly committed part time staff who have given 100% during the time they they're there.

It isn't really about my perception of their commitment. It's more about the practical stuff - their availability, the proportion of their time that would be taken up by stuff, continuity when they aren't there etc.

Im just as committed and focused when Im at work, if not more so now because Im in for a limited time. Also because I like being able to focus and use my brain to achieve something!

I do see how it can be hard to work around different schedules and make decisions if the team members are not in on a day that needs it. I guess its not just about having an efficient hand over process, its about not being physically there when required.

This discussion has definitely given some good perspectives.

I guess its not just about having an efficient hand over process, its about not being physically there when required.

Yes, for me, that's often what it boils down to. I can only speak for myself, but it definitely isn't a value judgement on my part about someone's commitment, skill or worth. It's simply a practical thing based on someone not being available as much.

If you husband works 4 days can you not work 4 days as well. You both have different days off and that would mean you’d need childcare on 3 days? Or you could do 3 long days again 1 day being your husbands day off, kids in childcare 2 days.

Threads like this leave me wondering where where people get career advice from… (mumsnet obvs)

Without knowing your role/ industry/ career aspirations a few things seem fairly obvious from a distance- and were clear to me aged 23/24 in my second job

80% of an FTE is usually manageable and doesn’t massively hinder progression
70% is tricky
60% and you will be seen as job rather than career mindset.

most senior jobs don’t lend themselves to managing pick up/ drop offs every day/ most days

the more senior you are pre kids the better from a career perspective. Yes there is the odd exception - but it really is the exception

The school day in the UK is bonkers from a working parent perspective. what’s the point of finishing at 3 and only having 30/45 mins for lunch? Much more sensible to have a longer lunch break, with lots of playing/ clubs and a later finish time. Lots of countries do this btw.

Regardless of that, after school clubs are fine a few days a week.

there is more to life than careers- but you can’t have it all..if career progression is important to you- and it doesn’t have to be- but if it is then something has to give on the part time front.

That, or going freelance.

I'm following in the footsteps of a few of my friends who've worked their skills up to a point where we can sell our time in day long chunks.

We're working in a small network who do skill sharing, giving each other backdoor support for free in our specialisms. Best of both worlds in many ways.

It is about simply not being there when needed

I've progressed as a 4 day a weeker partly because when there's a 5 day a week deadline, I don't expect it to wait a day for me when I'm off.

I find ways to make that one crucial 20 min call, respond to that urgent email with a critical question. It's not often, but I respect the times when I have to rearrange other things to prioritise the job.

Our family dynamic also isnt that I'm the part timer so my job gets low priority - when it's my busy season, DH knows he has to be the one to cover the kids illness etc.

I think part of the issue is clock watching/ hours worked.

In my team I need people who will work hard at busy periods. And this does involve additional hours at times.

With a part timer who is very strictly working say 24 hours per week, where would this flexibility at peak times come from? Would others be expected to pick this up while the part timer leaves? The answer is Yes of course.

I do think there's a fundamental thing you have to accept if you want career progression in most careers though OP, and that's that you just cannot do enough hours if you aren't using any wraparound care. Allowing 30 min travel time to get to & from work & a 30 min lunch break, only leaves about 4.5 hours.

I'm always amazed on mumsnet how many people have a perspective that after school care is unusual. Where I live (affluent south east commuter belt) it's a given that you can't really have a professional senior job without using wraparound at least 2-3 days a week.

Yes that is the deal.

Part timers clean up the ends.

100% agree. It’s especially unfair when - as in my place - the additional pay is justified on the basis of the person having the responsibility of making those decisions. I’ve lost count of how many decisions I’ve had to make which are above my pay grade because basically all of the female managers either work very part time, or are ostensibly full time but flex their hours to the extent that they’re barely there during the day.

I do think there's a fundamental thing you have to accept if you want career progression in most careers though OP, and that's that you just cannot do enough hours if you aren't using any wraparound care.

Or you can, especially if you have a very short commute, only if your DH/DP is willing to step up fully and share half of the load.

This when I went ft DC were 8 and 11. I did 9-3 Monday & Thursday. 7:30-5:30 on the other days.

My kids school only offers after school clubs 2 days a week and they finish at 4p.m, if you can even get in. Mine were on the waiting list the entirety of the last school year. Childminders near me cater mainly for babies and preschoolers. If you can access affordable, high quality afterschool childcare then you're in a very privileged position.

Unfortunately where I am, I have a 45 min commute and the business Im in only want me in during core hours so not very flexible. Id still have to leave at 5pm in the dot to pick up DS and Im not actually sure the nursery stays open past 5pm! I think maybe when both kids are in school it would be more feasible to increase hours.

Actually, you tend to have much less flexibility when they start school. Nurseries tend to be open all year round and for longer hours. The school holidays can be tough to cover.

I found it far more challenging when DS started school

Everything you say is true and it’s why I’ve always worked FT. I just make it work. But I do have a DH who does 50% with the kids and at home

It does get harder when they are in those early years of primary school there are more holidays and sickness to cover along with random inset days compared to nursery wrap around 50wks of the year school is 39weeks.

How do people make it work when kids go to school and work full time?

I know I wouldnt be able to do do it even with wrap around care (my kids current school/nursery dont provide enough to cover with my the commute and only working core hours).

How do people make it work when kids go to school and work full time?

I know I wouldnt be able to do do it even with wrap around care (my kids current school/nursery dont provide enough to cover with my the commute and only working core hours).

DH and I both worked flexible hours to manage the pick-ups and drop-offs between us. I worked very locally and was in a senior role, so I had a lot of control over my diary. Dh was self employed, so was in total control of what he did. Typically, one of us would start early and finish early, the other would start and finish late. One would do the morning drop off and the other would do the pick up. We didn't use any wrap around care, but dd was naturally a bit of a joiner and used to sign up for extracurricular clubs offered by the school, so that often helped.

I’ve read enough from you, thanks. How can I convey more clearly how uninterested I am in reading more?

When I wrote, this morning, that you should give up on trying to convince me that it was acceptable to apply for a full time job and then announce at the end of the interview that you wanted to be part time, what do you think I meant? And yet, here you are, still going and still tagging me in your posts. With a bonus drip feed.

If you have a partner then you share it. As others have said either flex each end of the day or through the week (I do Mondays, you do tuesdays).

Some quid pro quo with other parents and pay for an afterschool nanny for more flexibility.But ultimately if you want to progress with your career you cannot be soley responsible for the childcare.

Interesting discussion here OP. In my case, it's the other way round - I'm the higher earner and work ft, and I only took 6 months maternity so my DH could have 6 months parental leave with our baby - we both wanted that arrangement and financially it made more sense. But he was one of the first men in his large organisation to do it.

We then both worked ft and ds went to a lovely childminder for a couple of years, and now I've been promoted and we can afford DH to work 3 days a week (wfh - which is a huge help for us) so we only need 3 days school wraparound care for ds. DH works for a large employer and has a job where the skillset overlaps well with others'. So when he's off work, someone else can easily take over with minimal issues for the business - like you, he works hard and is very good at his job.

But if DH wanted to prioritise his career progression, now ds is in primary school, it'd be harder for us as a family. We have all benefited from DH's pt hours (he does more domestic labour than me overall, and especially during my busy periods) and his ability to easily cover some ds sick days. And juggling our holiday time to cover the weeks of summer holidays has also been easier. It's not a perfect or permanent solution, but I hope we can manage this way for at least a few years.

I did help one of my .4 pt colleagues receive a promotion which she wasn't even going to apply for - but our role is quite niche so the institution needs her/pt hours for that task. If working 4 days a week for ALL proves feasible, I really hope more employers will do it, and remove some of the stigma and lack of advancement opportunities. But I guess it depends a lot on the business needs, too.