CMS

[Lioness100]

Ex has been a Ltd Company Director- he makes up what he earns, can easily be found on Companies House. Drives a very expensive BMW. Has taken our children on holiday when I couldn’t even afford one overnight. I work a professional job, have set up a business to try and get additional income as the figures don’t stack up. I can’t run a household on one salary and provide for my children. I’ve put a complaint in on the automated service- told I’d hear in 7 days- no response. Put a 2nd stage complaint in- no response. Tried to phone, over an hour on hold just to be redirected and cut off, many times.

I’ve now just looked at my online account “NO PAYMENTS DUE FOR YOUR CURRENT PAYMENT PLAN”

I have no other information- no response to my complaint, I can only assume the pittance he was paying is going to stop?

We are in financial hardship despite the fact I work a professional job, I’ve had fantastic counselling through Women’s Aid which had helped me progress with regards to my mental health and now this?

It feels like a never ending cycle of systematic abuse that I never ever want to find my daughter’s or friends in.

When does it end?

I'm sorry OP. I gave up on trying to get a penny out of my ex but know I'm fortunate I can afford to raise her myself, albeit living very frugally. I don't understand why the brits make it so hard when in the US they can take driving licences and even imprison non payers. I do understand there's no capacity in the prisons here. It's just so frustrating isn't it

Sorry to hear that Clotted, it’s absolutely shit. You’re right, it is abandonment and should be treated as such with the same penalties we would face if we abandoned our children.

Hula hoop utterly frustrating. Sorry you’re going through this too.

currently still on hold at over an hour and 8 minutes. Chances are I’m going to get cut off after wasting over another hour yet again. No further forward and my children still receiving a pittance and I’m at risk of losing the roof over their heads.

I’m already at the stage I skip meals or avoid buying anything for myself if we go for an ice cream/treat.

It’s utterly disgraceful.

My exh moved abroad to avoid CM and only returned when the DC were adults . Bought a large house with new family , flash car etc etc and tried to reconnect with DC .
They weren’t interested.
He is now divorced ( again) , wife took him to the cleaners financially, his health is poor and he lives in a crap flat .
As ye sow etc ….
Don’t know if that helps but DC will understand when they are older .

I’m so sorry for you Lioness100. I understand exactly how you feel, I am in thr same boat. It’s a mix of fury, desperation and feeling abandoned and trampled on by the system that is supposed to protect you.

I hope you get some sort of resolution, though it might take a while. I try to console myself with the thought that it will be me the kids have the relationship with when they’re older - but that doesn’t help at all with getting through the month.

all thoughts from here x

I don't understand why it's not a criminal offence or effects their credit rating.

You can go to tribunal if you have proof they earn more. It annoys me that they can keep the amounts lower than the last full tax year if the difference is less than 25,% if the nrp doesn't update them. That's like the difference of 100 -200 per month on the average claim. There's no justification for this rule

Happened to my friend. Three DC, ex barely sees them through his own choice and never has them overnight but CMS said he only had to pay £220 a month. They used his earnings from 2020-2021 when doing the calculation so obviously hugely affected by furlough, he didn’t work for 4 months! She tried to challenge it, they ignored the tribunal entirely. They’re a total joke. He pays less because he lives with his GF’s two DC as well so basically pays more towards them than his own. Totally wrong.

Reading I do think he will damage his relationship when the kids are older and it’ll serve him right. He will lie and twist the truth though. Serves your ex right the situation he’s in now and no wonder your children didn’t want a relationship with him as adults.

Thanks Itslookinggood- I feel all those emotions, hard not to get down about it. Sending supportive thoughts back to you.

Mynamesnotma it should be a criminal offence. I think that’s why the system needs scrapped and rebuilt, starting with tougher penalties from the outset that are not a “maybe we’ll pursue if it looks good for our stats” approach, an approach that takes seriously those who purposefully and actively don’t pair fair maintenance to the upbringing of their children.

Still hanging in there at an hour and 28 minutes on hold 🙄

Over an hour and a half on hold and they’ve just cut me off, again 😫. I’ve put in a complaint online, they’ve ignored it.

Really had enough of this system. I wish someone would take up our fight as I’m out of mine. Another hour and a half I don’t get back.

Utterly soul destroying. Good luck to all fighting the same fight 😭.

Why do they cut you off? I need to call as this is what mine says 😏 can’t be bothered to sit on hold they if they just cut you off, it’s a complete joke the cms

Biscoff that is disgraceful! Just written off arrears!!!!! As that reads you have had no past payments and no future ones are in place (it could be that the amount for future payments just hasn’t been agreed yet and that’s to be updated) mine said no payment plan in place for the next payment as it was annual review time. What I really wanted to find out is what is happening with the variation?! Sod all as usual.

Good luck. You’ll need it.

The system is designed to make you sort this out yourself, with the other parent.
A 1 bed flat is perfect, it gets to the heart of the mater much quicker. Upset & distressed kids will make your point for you. They wont be impacted long term, homeless families live in 1 bed hotel rooms for months. Sometimes you have to up the pressure, honestly, drop them off. This time next week you'll be in a better position.

Cms are shit I've had a few pound a month for 7 years. He owes thousands but they can't take it as he quit his job to become a carer for his disabled mum apparently.

I haven't rang them in years there's no point. They do not do anything and do not call you back. I found it to stressful.

Yeah, another Ltd company here. Girlfriend has been issued preference shares and gets the dividend payment, whilst he apparently volunteers his time for free. Fully legal from the tax perspective. £7/week award for two. And plenty of emails after every (infrequent) contact about why the shoes look worn or the violin is second hand, as MY CHILDREN deserve better!

coodawoodashooda - I didnt have to prove it was fraud. That is down to the CMS Fraud team who investigate but you need strong historical issues of non compliance ie Liability Order and significant arrears. They could have found nothing so you do need to be pretty sure of yourself and what you are saying. They are not called the fraud team they have a politer title but that is what they call themselves. I undertook considerable groundwork.

Should it have reached a Tribunal, I would have asked for a forensic accountant to be present.

It was Hobson's choice for him, present your books, ie no choice at all which prompted a settlement. Also locally, someone had been taken to court by the CMS and the Judge had given a suspended sentence the man unless he paid arrears which may well have also concentrated his mind.

I do believe since Covid things have gone from bad to worse at CMS and it is contributing strongly to child poverty. The government need to get a grip yet I never hear it mentioned. My own MP (red wall seat) wrote to them and expressed shock but that is not enough.

Sorry to hear from others in the same position. Agreed it has got worse since covid. They were utterly inept before and even more so now.

12548 I choose to put my children and their happiness and their welfare before the shitty system. If it was that simple do you not think I would have done that by now?

There are many online government forms that I have downloaded and shared highlighting the ACTUAL cost of bringing up children and how both parties should fill these out and take joint financial responsibility (by the time it’s got to CMS the golden family based arrangement has never existed or broken down mainly because the NRP has a new life and doesn’t want any financial responsibility for their children) It’s laughable they even waste time putting these forms together as their own system then calculates the most ridiculous and unjust contribution for actually bringing up a child/children- nowhere close to the actual figures and stick rigidly to “pay that measly amount you can legally pay nothing else- doesn’t matter if your child needs shoes, has an expensive school trip, is fantastic at a sport and wants weekly lessons, is struggling at school and needs a Tutor” You will not be accountable for anything else in your child’s life. Our children are being systematically failed. We are aggravating and facilitating childhood ACE’s and we are losing out on nurturing future talent. It’s a disgraceful oversight to think it’s ONLY the RP’s (over 90% females) who should carry this burden. Never mind the implications for the ability for the mother to work and progress within work in such a system. My political allegiance would turn to any government willing to actually tackle this issue head on.

Put in the mix abuse and coercive control (don’t know if you missed the fact I get counselling from Women’s Aid) and the whole wonderful loophole of self employed/Ltd Company status and you have the perfect recipe for a horrendous/stressful situation for the resident parent and children. It’s the most stressful, damaging, most likely life limiting situation you could find yourself in and it should be criminalised.

We talk of equality, it’s at the forefront of our psyches at the moment with the wonderful victory for the Lionesses (I’m not English by the way) however we are far far behind in true equality and truly supporting each other in the every day challenges as women and mothers.

It should start here, enough is enough.

CMS is systematically destroying women, their children and their input in this country. I’m the ex partner of a self employed/Ltd company Director. He laughs in my face. I try my hardest to keep a dignified silence and understanding I can’t give my children “Disney experiences” I’m hanging on by a thread. Head in hands, sitting on my kitchen floor, crying, going to my Doctors, Mental Health Nurse quickly putting me in touch with Women’s Aid. The most wonderful help I’ve ever received and as the mother of two young daughters hope they receive This isn’t rocket science, this isn’t new partners vs old partners, it’s desperately trying as a mother to put your baby at the centre… no mater what age they are. children should ALWAYS come first, the end. Unless you’re an insecure old or young trumpet that thinks your needs trump that of a young child… Gadz… I’d hate to be you.

Get your MP to start a crusade to get this sorted.

If they have a limited company you need to submit a variation to take dividends into account. That's where the money will be filtering to them from.

I have this. ExH pays himself PAYE below tax threshold. Based on this my maintenance was about £7 a month for 2 DC. I batted it straight back to CMS asking how he could afford his basic outgoings (rent at £900 pcm) if this was true. To be fair they were good albeit slow. Went to the accountant and got his drawing/dividend figures and based claim on that.

He still didn't pay but recovery was eventually successful after a looming CCJ.

If you think he is truly concealing self employed income you can make a complaint to HMRC online who can audit his accounts

@ingratitude that is useful advice I don't suppose you have a link?

www.gov.uk/government/organisations/hm-revenue-customs/contact/report-fraud-to-hmrc