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Original poster

Being asked to pay commission on a boat I gifted

29 replies

quietandcomplex · 30/07/2022 18:10

I gifted a sailing boat to an enthusiast who would not have been able to afford this boat otherwise.

I notified the broker that I had decided to gift the boat who acknowledged this with no further comment.

The boat had been for sale for a few years.

I asked the broker for the final winter storage bill but was met with an email to tell me he had reduced his commission bill and was I in agreement.

The original wording of his commission years ago was

"I can confirm we operate on the basis of Sole Selling Rights at a commission of x % of the sale price + VAT, subject to a minimum of £xxx + VAT.

Having gifted the dinghy this is the message I received -

".... bearing in mind you gave the boat to xxxxx for nil cost, I believe it would be harsh to charge you this amount.
In the circumstances and looking back on the work we did in trying to sell her, I am prepared to reduce our commission to £xx + VAT."

Having worked in property where I was paid commission only on a deal going through, I was really taken aback to receive this request for money.
Should I pay the broker his admittedly reduced commission bill?

I believe commission is paying on a percentage of the amount of the sale. In this case no money changed hands - so no commission.

Am I missing something?

Would be grateful for feedback, thanks

OP posts:
hesttreat · 30/07/2022 18:12

But it was subject to a minimum charge? So you pay the minimum charge?

Ontomatopea · 30/07/2022 18:14

They should have set out the special terms for this case at the start

Ontomatopea · 30/07/2022 18:15

Ontomatopea · 30/07/2022 18:14

They should have set out the special terms for this case at the start

Oops, forgot to specify. So subject to a minimum of £xxx + VAT. this much should have been all that applied. Is this what they charged?

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 30/07/2022 18:16

But the commission was specified as either x% + vat, or a minimum of y + vat? And they're charging you less than y?

Unless there was a time limit on the sales contract as if they've been trying to sell it for years I'm not sure they've done a very good job/held up their end of the deal?

What if you'd said you were going to keep it, and didn't need their services? Or is this a case of whenever you decided to sell it you would have had to use those brokers?

1987qwerty · 30/07/2022 18:17

Sole selling rights was your undoing.

IncompleteSenten · 30/07/2022 18:18

Surely you only get commission if you've sold something for someone.

I'd argue they get fuck all. They didn't sell it. After a few years of them not selling it, you gave it away. 🤷

bare · 30/07/2022 18:20

There wasn't a sale price, so no commission.

Hellocatshome · 30/07/2022 18:21

It was subject to a minimum which I seems to be what they are working on. Surely the contract says something about if it isn't sold or you withdraw it from sale which you have done by giving it away. I think that's the important bit of the contract.

oviraptor21 · 30/07/2022 18:22

You haven't sold it.
But is there some clause that covers that?

KrisAkabusi · 30/07/2022 18:25

If they are not charging you the minimum plus vat, you're getting away lightly.

CastleCrasher · 30/07/2022 18:29

They included a clause to cover this - "subject to a minimum of £xxx + VAT." You needed to withdraw it from sure and then gift it, although depending on the contract, you may have still been liable for some costs. Presumably the broker has invited some costs in photographs, preparing particulars, advertising etc so should be paid for this and if your contact specifies the amount for this as it seems to, then you need to pay that

Unbored · 30/07/2022 18:29

Does your contract state you
need to pay a fee if you withdraw the boat from sale?

NSA2103 · 30/07/2022 18:30

KrisAkabusi · 30/07/2022 18:25

If they are not charging you the minimum plus vat, you're getting away lightly.

This.

I am a commercial property agent, and spend time arguing/negotiating this very area. If they introduced the buyer/donee within the contract period, and subject to any other clause in your contract, you should accept their offer of reduced minimum fee.

Brigante9 · 30/07/2022 18:32

Legally, they are owed zero. No sale=no commission. They’re trying it on, CF!

Sparklybutold · 30/07/2022 18:32

I'd go back to the contract. If it's depending on sale price and there's nothing in it about the instance if it's nil - then I wouldn't pay anything. I would keep the email back unemotional and pointing out the facts.

Hellocatshome · 30/07/2022 18:34

Brigante9 · 30/07/2022 18:32

Legally, they are owed zero. No sale=no commission. They’re trying it on, CF!

Are you legally trained? Have you seen the contract?

Staynow · 30/07/2022 18:41

If they had sole selling rights doesn't that mean you no longer had the right to sell the boat yourself (even if the price was £0)? So then I would assume you would have to pay the minimum amount if you're still under that contract. You should have ended the contract before you gave the boat away I'd have thought.

If you have an estate agent with sole selling rights then you have to pay them even if you find a buyer yourself.

IrisVersicolor · 30/07/2022 18:41

If they’ve been trying to sell your boat for a few years, they will have put time and effort into it, surely you’d want to pay them something?

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 30/07/2022 18:43

subject to a minimum of £xxx + VAT.

I have no knowledge of contract law but I would assume you owe them this?

Did you formally withdraw it from sale before giving it away?

JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 30/07/2022 18:52

"I can confirm we operate on the basis of Sole Selling Rights at a commission of x % of the sale price + VAT, subject to a minimum of £xxx + VAT"

And the broker didn't think to include a clause saying that a certain fee £yy would be payable if you withdraw from the sale? It's rare to find a genuine 'no sale no fee' arrangement.

Beautiful3 · 30/07/2022 18:54

How can they be entitled to commission, if they failed to sell it, for years?! I wouldn't pay an estate agent commission, if they failed to sell my home. I would decline their request.

mrsjusticestain · 30/07/2022 19:08

This is a nice little contract law question! If there's more contractual wording you need to look at that too. If not, my view is no sale = no commission, minimum or otherwise. But it's not clearcut that the minimum doesn't apply. And maybe the agent can identify a breach by you gifting it, and so claim wasted costs. Or a quantum meruit claim.

CharlotteOH · 30/07/2022 19:38

No way. The agreement seems to have been that he gets a SALE commission. He failed to sell the boat. You owe him nothing (this is not legal advice etc). Anyway, a percentage of 0 = 0!

Tell him that you regard his request for payment as highly unprofessional and unlawful and you will not be paying. You may wish to mention that his greedy request is already trending on social media and maybe ask if he really wants to spotlight for the boating community his total failure, over several years, to do the job he was asked to do.

Original poster
quietandcomplex · 30/07/2022 20:14

Thank you for your messages and thoughts.

In answer to some comments:

There was not formal written contract, the entire contract is quoted here and sent to me via email.

"I can confirm we operate on the basis of Sole Selling Rights at a commission of x % of the sale price + VAT, subject to a minimum of £xxx + VAT."

So - no special terms, no time limit and no, I did not end the contract before I gave the boat away. No mention was made of any fee if the boat was withdrawn from sale.
The broker did not incur any costs, no advertising, did not take any photos or write any script or post the boat on any forum.

The broker does have a website but does not upload boats for sale on this website, buyers are invited to call the broker.
I did mention the boat was for sale at least twice on a local whatsapp group but no-one was interested in buying the boat. Had I found a buyer myself I would definitely have paid the broker his fee.
If there are any further comments now I have said a bit more I would be interested to hear them and thanks so much for your posts.

OP posts:
Hellocatshome · 30/07/2022 20:17

quietandcomplex · 30/07/2022 20:14

Thank you for your messages and thoughts.

In answer to some comments:

There was not formal written contract, the entire contract is quoted here and sent to me via email.

"I can confirm we operate on the basis of Sole Selling Rights at a commission of x % of the sale price + VAT, subject to a minimum of £xxx + VAT."

So - no special terms, no time limit and no, I did not end the contract before I gave the boat away. No mention was made of any fee if the boat was withdrawn from sale.
The broker did not incur any costs, no advertising, did not take any photos or write any script or post the boat on any forum.

The broker does have a website but does not upload boats for sale on this website, buyers are invited to call the broker.
I did mention the boat was for sale at least twice on a local whatsapp group but no-one was interested in buying the boat. Had I found a buyer myself I would definitely have paid the broker his fee.
If there are any further comments now I have said a bit more I would be interested to hear them and thanks so much for your posts.

What exactly is the point of the broker then?