Stolen Money

[AdviceandHelp56]

Immediate family member passed away a few weeks ago. There was 3 of us as ‘next of kin’ if you like. Only one of us had access to this person regularly and helped them out with finances etc, because everyone lives so far away (over 6 hours).

Now we have all come together and have started going through belongings etc and tying up loose ends. One of these loose ends was bank accounts. Family member had been in a residential care home for quite some time before passing so hadn’t been spending money of their own as such, and had no concept of money or how to spend it anyway because of their health condition.

£6,000 had been spent in a short space of time - supermarket visits (wasn’t him because he was bedbound and had everything supplied by the care home), sporting days out, large purchases such as spa equipment… basically the next of kin who was seeing to him had been spending his money probably right under his nose and without consent.

Next of kin was on their bank account, and it’s proving now that family member has died, that he didn’t consent to this money being spent…

Should I report this? Realistically the money can’t be magicked back but it just makes me so cross that this was all happening. We never suspected a thing, but behind it all he was probably stealing from a very vulnerable person that he was trusted to care for!

The difficulty is that the person had a joint account with your family member. So in law he/she had as much right to spend it as your relation.

Tell the next of kin that you think the bank account has been hacked as there is a lot of unusual activity. Say you are going to contact the police and watch their reaction which will tell you all you need to know.

Yes, I would do what @Ladyface says. And I'd say, "It's lucky they went to the spa because there'll be CCTV footage there..."

It's awful that someone has spent an old person's money like that.

Do not forget that no matter what they did, they are family. Give them the chance to put it right or at the very least admit to it before taking steps that can never be undone.

Was s/he on the bank account via a power of attorney or as a joint account holder ? First is fraud and you need to contact the court if protection for advice. The second I doubt has any comeback as it would be classed as joint money .

So we have confronted him about it as soon as we spotted it and he just used the excuse of spending his inheritance early… without knowing whether he had any inheritance coming, how much he had coming and spending it probably without asking way before family member even died!

What if family member needed that money for his own care etc?!

That’s what I want to know if I can report this because I don’t know if or how they could investigate it?!

I don’t think the POA had been granted so I’m guessing he was added on as a joint person, but even then, I don’t know HOW family member agreed to this as they had Dementia and wasn’t able to make decisions for the last few years…

Is there likely to be enough for it to be deducted from their share of the estate?

If he gave consent to opening he joint account then its their money too. Has the account been frozen now. If its a joint account does all the money automatically go to the sibling. Did sibling have power of attorney, if so they should have kept accounts. I would call the bank fraud dept for advice. What a shitty thing to do. Are they the sort of person who has a conscience and will pay it back or deduct it from any inheritance.

If there are concerns about their gaining access to the account the bank should have a vulnerable customer protocol and nok should be able to query it.

Contact the bank. They would have needed poa or seen your dad in person to open a joint account in his name.

there must be some sort of consent if they have joined account as that technically makes it theirs too

So when you say "on their account" do you mean it was an actual joint account or they just had access to it?

You can't report that person, because they are named as a joint owner on that account.

Did they definitely have official permission to use the account, they've not just taken the debit card, have they?

They’ve admitted they took it as “early inheritance”. So I’d take the path of deducting in from their inheritance now as they clearly expect 😉 all nice like. And then never speak to them again.

Might not have been family.

You can ask the bank when the account was made joint and if there was POA. And state you suspect financial abuse of a vulnerable person. If the date is after a dementia diagnosis then you probably would have grounds of foul play.

You really need to be specific about "on their bank account".
Was it a sole account, & then changed to a joint account?
If so, when?
Did the deceased have mental capacity at the time?
Did the alleged fraudster forge a signature, perhaps?

The bank should have the answers, & if they gave the family member access without proper authorisation , they are at fault.

Has the 'thief' said the £6,000 they've purloined will be deducted from whatever the estate was due to grant them? That's supposing there's enough left for that but did the deceased have a property that's now up for sale? It's telling that this spending spree was in a short space of time like the 'thief' saw the end was nigh and got their treats in pronto.

They deserve to be reported but I'm not sure what the crime is if it was a genuine joint bank account. The question would be when was the account created and could your relative have agreed to it knowingly and willingly at that point of their dementia diagnosis?

It comes out of their inheritance. If you have the proof in writing to go through solicitors etc.

I used to work in the bereavement department of a bank. Unfortunately, we wrong as it is, if the person is a joint party on the account then no crime has been committed and the bank also won't do anything. They could have spent every penny and the same would still apply. Because they are a joint party then the money is legally jointly theirs.

Unless they aren't named on the account and just had the deceased persons card but then used it for themselves, in which case they absolutely have broken the law.

The things that used to come to light once someone has passed away was amazing. Families would fall out over a few hundred pounds.

Go to the Police. We are in a similar although different (if that makes sense!) situation. It's financial abuse. Spending their inheritance early indeed!

As someone upthread has said - he’s admitted spending some of his inheritance early, so rather than go to the drama of taking it to the police, I would just knock the £6k off the assets you have coming to you, so he gets £6k less than you and the other sibling. Tbh, if his name was on the account, you wouldn't be able to prove fraud anyway. At least you’ve got a confession out of him, so you can act accordingly.

I would knock it off the inheritance. This happened in my family where the inheritance was insufficient, and the thief with POA had predeceased the person -money was recovered through the courts from their inheritors.