To ask about face to face GP appointments?

[Newyearnewname20]

I’ve had an ongoing problem with my skin for the last 3 months or so. Each time I’ve contacted my local doctors’ surgery (am based in London) about it, they’ve said they’re not doing face to face appointments, and I’ve had a phone appointment instead.

The surgery hasn’t said why they’re just doing phone appointments, but I’m assuming it’s because of Covid restrictions still in place? Not really sure though.

I’ve now had 2 phone appointments, each with a different doctor. The doctors disagreed on what my skin problem could be, they each prescribed me different courses of medication (so I’ve now had 2 separate courses of medication).

My skin problem still hasn’t cleared up, and I’m none the wiser about what could be causing it.

I’m getting really fed up of the problem (it’s making me v self conscious), and I just really would like some continuity of care form the same doctor and to be examined face to face.

I guess I’ve got a couple of AIBUs really! The first is - AIBU to ask if your local doctors surgery is doing face to face appointments, or if you’re having to do phone appointments too? Second AIBU - would I be unreasonable to ask for a face to face appointment?

Thanks all.

Reported.

Classic example of why phone consultation is a shit idea.

Friend of DH reported rash on breast - phone appointment, given cream.
2 weeks later - called back, no better. Have a non-urgent phone appointment in 3 weeks.
3 weeks later - another ineffective ointment.
8 weeks after first appointment - finally got a F2F after argy bargy with receptionist, hmm looks sinister, TWR referral.

TWR referral actually took 3.5 weeks (still better than GP) and she actually has breast cancer.

There is just no excuse - it's negligence.

@Nahimjustaworm what world do you live in? Most people can’t threaten a day off as then they wouldn’t get paid and they can’t afford to do that. Most jobs do not allow you to drop everything at a random point . Some examples

• practice nurse giving childhood vaccinations , can she just stop and deal with her own medical phone call. Should she leave the patient in the treatment room or ask them to leave
• hairdresser, perhaps she should just leave her client mid cut
• anaesthetist, presumably they should just leave the theatre, same for surgeon
• taxi driver , he should just broadcast his problems to the people in the back of the cab I suppose
• checkout person , halfway through someone’s shopping and the Doctor rings , what should she do?

and so on , really how can you be so privileged as to think people can operate like this ?

Mine would do this on the phone and sending a photo which I agree isn't good enough to really see skin problems properly. Mine does do face to face if they have to (they let me go in for a breast exam) but they are doing as much as they can over the phone. For some things it's much lore efficient for others I wish they would see in person

@cyclamenqueen sadly typical of all too many GP's - the blindingly obvious solution is for the GP to just bloody call at a fixed time and develop some insight into other people's (less well-remunerated and flexible) working lives.

I'd also add bus and train drivers to your list.

It's privledged to think that a doctor who might literally have to prioritise someone who's dying over your appointment should call you at a specified time. Even if they specified a time they might end up delayed so you still might end up incapacitated for a fair chunk of your own work shift. It's a doctor's job to make you better and care for your health. Where they can they'll fit this around your day to day life but ultimately it's your responsibility to prioritise your own health. No workplace should be interfering with this right. It's privledged to think that it's a doctor should act as your PA.

Privileged or just recognising the reality that appointments run late for discussions that can't wait or when a patient says the Columbo 'just one last thing' at the end of a consult that raises an urgent red flag? Or having to sit with crashing patients while ambulances are delayed when there's no ANP/PN who is free. Easy to give firm appointments by cutting the number of appointments and/or leaving a large enough gap in between appointments much like some of the European railways use to achieve 100% punctuality. Not sure reducing the number of appointments will help patients in aggregate though. Ultimately it's a symptom of an under-funded and over-stretched system that reached breaking point as a deliberate government policy.

But clearly some practices manage it , mine does.

also it’s exactly the same with f2f and we didn’t expect people to sit in the waiting room for 10 hours in case the GP had an emergency. If you could schedule face to face appointments then you can schedule phone ones . Most people understand that sometimes emergencies will happen.

Why don't you be more proactive? When you ring up say straight away that you want to face-to-face and when they say no, ask why not. and if not ask to be directed to the practice manager. say you want to face-to-face. I don't mean to be rude but you need to grow a pair of bollocks, be polite, but firm, but insistent.

Different practices have different contexts and staffing situations. We never had one day with no F2F and no home visits during COVID. Others did. Some practices have entirely handed back their contract and the GPs have either gone fully private/non-NHS or just locum (broadly unheard of back in the day), most struggle to recruit, different practices have different reliances on locums who often leave a bigger admin backlog that needs a permanent GP to handle afterwards, some have a greater proportion of less experienced/newly minted who tend to take longer and require mentorship. Some of the corporatised tend to run with a model of very low GP numbers and more ANPs/PNs.

@Newyearnewname20 I expect you've already done so, hence approaching GP , but have you visited your local pharmacy and asked their advice ? We have a truly excellent pharmacist locally who will tell you what it he thinks it is if you need to see GP, otherwise will have something on the shelves that works.

This thread perfectly shows why absolutely no one wants to be a GP (or a GP nurse or receptionist etc). The system is broken. There are more people. More illness. More treatments. Much more being done "in the community". There is however no more money, no more resource and definitely no more doctors. My practice has 2 partners retiring early, 2 salaried docs broken and reducing hours and those of us left working 70hr weeks under immense stress not allowed to breath or god forbid step one foot even slightly wrong. We will all be gone soon. I wish the public and government the best of luck with whatever comes next.

Thanks to all our amazing GPs and practice staff who do an amazing job whilst being drastically under funded and under staffed. We need to take some of the money we pay to MPs who do very little (it’s the civil servants who run the country) and give to those people who actually do something useful like NHS, teachers, council workers.
Ask yourself what has you MP actually done for you personally? Mine sent me an email saying she supported Boris Johnson and that is the total of what she has actually done for me.

Absolutely terrifying.
GPs and everyone who work in NHS are superstars. I will never forget all you did in COVID.

That is a gross invasion of privacy! Why the hell do your surgery think that's acceptable?!

@memorial having lived in a country with a vastly superior service which had no GP's, just 'family doctors' who dealt with trivia such as contraception, childhood sniffles etc, I am not worried.

It makes literally no sense to me that we stuff highly trained doctors with money, deny them access to diagnostic tests, and expect them to guess what's wrong with 50-odd people a day. It's batshit and it leads to delayed diagnosis and frustration at the bottleneck it creates.

Most people working 70 hour weeks and experiencing burnout don't have the privilege of a pension worth £50k pa allowing them to retire early. So yes, you are privileged (or privledged if you prefer).

My GP offer both, though usually you have to do a phone appointment first. The receptionist does seem to apply some common sense though and get you a face to face if it clearly can't be done over the phone.

No GP younger than 55 will be retiring anywhere close to 50k you need better sources than the daily hate. And those other countries have well functioning specialists not the current shit show of year long waits. But actually I seriously do not give a shit anymore. I am beyond burnt out and its mainly because of attitudes like yours. Because despite loving my actual job, being an excellent well like and respected GP and running a popular successful practice, I am over worked stressed and burnt out and sick to the back teeth of having to defend myself.
Complain to the bloody government who have made primary care ridiculously unsustainable. Not those killing themselves to keep it going. We are all done.

My source isn't the Daily Hate, dear. It's my husband. Specifically, his NHS pension that is worth >£50k per year (and he is well under 55).

Knock yourself out with quitting, though. The current system is ludicrously outdated, frustrated and unsatisfactory for those on either side of the table end of the phone.

Some of the comments on here are MN at its worst. Anyone who earns more than someone else is somehow ‘taken down’ because they don’t have it as bad as you?

I’m very happy if my GP gets paid more than me. They deserve every penny - and some - and I don’t mean in a hand clappy COVID way.

If you have a legitimate complaint about difficulty getting F2F stick to that. begrudging DOCTORS even a half decent salary and snide remarks about pensions and working conditions (which are probably incorrect) just highlights the stupidity of some posters. Not smart enough to have an actual debate so resort to lazy MN cliches and passive aggressive remarks.

I'm sorry I wasn't going to engage because I didn't want to derail the OPs quite reasonable concerns.
But
Your husband must be working full time and a bit if he is under 55 and going to get a pension >50K. Or he isn't a GP but a specialist with a private practice.
As for retiring early again if you are on the newer pensions this is not possible without significant reductions.
So either you are just making it up/lying or your husband is an idiot/lying to you/doesn't understand pensions.
But the vast majority of GPs working their guts out can't retire early on 50k. Most salaried GPs (especially part time women) don't even earn that.
And lastly don't patronise me. I'm a 50 odd year old professional you can call me Dr Dear if you really want to

@memorial sorry to hear you're struggling with how grim it is. Agree about what you say about current pensions but didn't know it was impossible for the old final salary with long service so didn't post. Swore at the computer when I saw 'dear'. Pensions for consultants can be so much more. Spot on about PT though most don't understand the duration of a session with admin nor see GPs working late so just pick up on 'PT' together with 'they earn more than me' but after so many years of training and study. I see early career GPs leaving the profession entirely and some see their university contemporaries in other professions earning much more for much less stress, time and responsibility. Have seen practices handing back the contracts and large corporates taking on failing practices and running with constantly changing locums or tiny numbers of GPs. It looks like a deliberate strategy supported by most of the press. Odd times. It is odd as I think one of the main beneficiaries of major changes/privatisation will be GPs and nurses when the government can't impose constrained terms and corporatised providers fight for limited staff unless they offshore remote consults entirely.

I'm a 50 odd year old professional you can call me Dr Dear if you really want to

Me too. My first degree is in accountancy and I’ve got a PhD (unlike my DH). Have you?

Very revealing remark, btw. Says a great deal about you, as does accusing me of lying.

I didn’t say my husband was a GP. I said he had a NHS pension and that he expects it to pay out >£50k per year. He’s a FT consultant working 12 PA’s a week.

I’m obviously very happy indeed about this state of affairs, as a private sector employee which a DC pension. But i also think it is absolutely not sustainable for every doctor to have a 3 million-odd quid pension pot (a majority of which is contributed by the taxpayer - who doesn’t get to retire at 55 or anything close to it). When those very fortunate doctors are on £100k pa and also complaining about how awful it all is and how patients are unbearable? GTFO.

Please check your privilege.

We went back to completely F2F appointments in November. Improved our quality of life no end. Demand actually went down!! I hate telephone appointments. Don't mind a quick phone call for a follow up but otherwise a waste of time. We were converting 70% of phonecalls to f2f anyway so made little difference

My GP is still doing calls and it's "between 2 and 5" rather than a rough time. I told the GP the last time I spoke to them that it was a rubbish service and she appreciated what I said but I think she is in the minority in the practice.