To think there's an unfair stigma around recreational drug use?

[janef001]

I have a female friend who recreationally uses weed, ecstasy and xanax from time to time. They live in a houseshare with two other women.

Last week one roommate couldn't find an Apple Watch and asked my friend if they've seen it. They said no. My friend went to sleep later during the day and overheard the other two downstairs saying "I think x must have taken it for cash, you know she does drugs all the time."

My friend was upset to say the least and especially when the roommate later found it in the next day at the bottom of her clothes hamper near the washing machine.

I know these attitudes aren't uncommon and I've heard my own family who are quite educated express them. I understand the devastation addiction causes but many people take drugs apart from weed and alcohol and don't end up stealing from friends/family/roommates.

I wonder why there's still such a strong stigma

Absolutely this. And it's about time cannabis was legalised, at the very least for medical use. When I knew someone who grew it and I was able to use it, it absolutely helped me. Apparently that makes me scum according to some posters!
Such a shame that some of the responses are so extreme - but it does illustrate why it's unlikely that there will be a sensible debate about the issue by our lawmakers any time soon.

Do racists make particularly dangerous drivers?

Are you happy for people to get in their car after drinking all day? Happy to be served by people who drink alcohol in stores? Your kids to be taught by teachers who are drunk?

well for those reasons alone, no, drugs should not be legalised

Recreational drug use deserves every bit of stigma it gets, imo. It's less stigmatised than it should be.

It's complex but the OP is right in a way that the stigma around recreational drugs is disproportionate.

First off, I'm not a fan of casual recreational drug use. Nine times out of ten its not worth it. But the double standards around some sorts of recreational drugs compared with alcohol are absolutely ridiculous.

For one thing the way people talk about recreational drugs as if they are all addictive is really problematic. In actual fact very few recreational drugs are addictive. The one class of drugs which is highly and dangerously addictive is opiates and these are seriously dangerous because of their addictive qualities. But most other hard drugs, even quite damaging drugs such as cocaine etc are not actually addictive. They may be habit-forming and they are dangerous in other ways but they are not physically addictive.

There's a huge gulf between, say, casual weed use and being addicted to heroin and lumping all these drugs together is profoundly unhelpful and its not surprising that many people ignore the official position on drugs once they figure this out. I firmly believe that part of the reason people of my generation (turned 20 in the early 90s) went for it so hard with rave era drugs like ecstasy is because we'd been raised on the "just say no" rubric of he 80s and when we worked out it was a load of bollocks we dismissed all the warnings about drugs. It would have been much more sensible to educate young people about different classes of drugs and their effects, rather than damning all of them as addictive and dangerous.

And don't get me started on alcohol, which is probably more dangerous than any other mind-altering substance apart from opiates. It's the height of hypocrisy that people come on here posting about recreational drug users being "addicts" when they get tanked up three nights a week.

There are massive ethical issues with drug distribution and trafficking which I haven't got into here and that alone should put people off casual drug use. But purely looking at the health issues and risk factors OP is basically right that the stigma is disproportionate.

Because it's illegal?
Because it might start as recreational but is addictive?
Because it costs a lot of money?
Because drug users are not in general trustworthy, particularly when under the influence?
Because it ruins lives?
(And the whataboutery to alcohol, tobacco etc doesn't make them any better either.)
Is this a reverse btw?

Legalisation must be the answer really. Sure of course issues with addiction and problem use but many many others would be unproblematic recreational users much like alcohol.

Because it might start as recreational but is addictive?

Heroin is addictive. Cocaine is habit forming. Ecstacy/LSD/psilocybin and non-addictive and potentially have an important role to play in treating things like depression, particularly psilocybin.

It makes zero sense to lump them all together as they currently are. And it's not whataboutery to include alcohol, it's just another drug, it's legal through historical quirk.

Hmm, most people on drugs that I know are on weed. The main threat to me from them is boring me to death. I have done some class A in the past but very infrequently. Peer pressure was a thing.

Saying that, I have a friend who has been trying to get her heroin addict boyfriend help for a long time. She has now told me that she is now taking heroin herself. There is gut feeling in me that is saying not to give her my address because she might come and nick stuff, or tell more unsavoury people about my house and have them some nick stuff.
Maybe that is from a place of stigma... I don't know. I have known people who houseshared with addicts who had their personal items stolen for a fix.

I dont know what point you think you're making each time you say this,, and you have been repeating yourself throughout the thread

I am pro legislation but mainly overall regulation

But until (or if) this country ever gets to this point anyone who isnt an addict and therefore has a choice, who does engage in the buying and using of illegal drugs is creating more child abuse, more grooming, more violence, more child and adult rape, more theft, more cuckooing than if they didnt use.

Of course, nearly everyone on this thread (and any thread) only ever uses a bit of 'home grown' weed or that nice man down the road who has been quietly growing it for years, except that of course he is also supplying others, who arent so nice, who are cutting it with other stuff and getting kids to run around in taxis and scooters to do deals, hold deals, mix it up, run up debts. Its part of the problem.

There is also a huge lack of education about different substances, already in this thread is a parent who thinks that her daughters use of weed will help or has helped her ADHD, it wont, its counterproductive for ADHD

In your example though you're talking about addiction, not recreational use.

In response to PPs saying that recreational drugs should be legalised, and comparing their effects to those of alcohol, I would say: you may well be right in making this analogy, but frankly, if alcohol and tobacco had been discovered recently, they would certainly NOT be legal. They are so ingrained into Western culture that no party who proposed to ban them would get elected - unfair, but true.

It's the old 'two (or even three) wrongs don't make a right'. Yes, these two legal substances which cause terrible addiction and are disastrous to health are bad enough without giving the green light to more potentially addictive, and certainly mood/mind altering drugs as well. PPs who ask 'What about drunk drivers?' Well, yes, that's precisely the point. At the moment the law probably acts as at least a mild deterrent on people indulging in narcotics and other substances which might impair their performance at work, and present a serious threat to public safety.

Just because society historically got it wrong with alcohol and tobacco doesn't mean we should make the wide spectrum of potentially harmful recreational substances OK.

A very fair stigma if you ask me

I made this point about my 20 year old dd earlier up thread. She has suffered from at times crippling anxiety since puberty and is currently waiting for an ADHD diagnosis having masked and gone under the radar for many years (has been referred via NHS but 2 year wait) - due to the delays I am sending her privately but her earliest appointment is 28 Feb next year. I think she may have aspergers too which is often comorbid with ADHD. Weed is the only thing that helps (it helps counteracts the lacks of dopamine). She nor I can worry about the abstract impacts on others involved in the supply chain when weed is literally keeping her alive.

I take it you are referring to me.

The fact is it does help her - noticeably. Of course I would much prefer her to be on prescription Elvanse, but until she is diagnosed (referral in process) it literally keeps her functional. Walk a mile in my or her shoes

Coming from some one who would like to legalize all drugs, I think I can firmly ignore any thing you post from this point on. 😂

Decriminalisation isn’t necessarily about sending the message that the whole spectrum of currently illegal drugs should be perfectly okay to take. It’s a recognition that these substances have been illegal for decades and that even whilst penalties for them have been harsh, this hasn’t prevented vast numbers of people (it’s estimated that in any given year, around 20% of the UK population have consumed an illegal substance, a number which continues to grow as marajuana gains greater social acceptability) from taking them either recreationally, or in a self-medicatory manner. It also recognises that much of the inherent danger of many drugs is that they are produced by criminal factions, cannot be quality controlled, and that safe dosing therefore can’t be accurately ascertained; that it’s the illegality which essentially makes many drugs dangerous.

Few people who want to try a substance, resist doing so simply because it’s illegal. There’s no evidence in countries with greater decriminalisation or laxer laws in possession that hordes of people have suddenly decided they want to try heroin or drop MDMA.

medium.com/the-establishment/why-adults-with-undiagnosed-adhd-often-turn-to-self-medication-de0ca2e2d0cd I will just leave this here. Whilst we continue to fail those with mental health and neurodiversity substance 'abuse' will continue

I didn't say "all drug addicts are scum". I wouldn't say anything so vague and lacking in evidence.
It's an obvious fact that people who can control their drug consumption don't become addicts. The ability to control oneself is will power. I'm not saying people with will power are somehow morally superior.

I'm skepticism of unscientific psychological theories about abuse and addiction. Unquantifiable missing data leaves huge holes in these theories. There is the unknown factor which is sexual abuse that is not reported. Another error I often see is selection bias, e.g. that would be sampling only people who have become addicts, without considering drug takers who have not become addicts, which introduces another unknown quantity of drug users who might not admit to taking drugs because it's illegal. Then there are all the other factors that could affect addiction. Huge swathes of doubt.

YABU
There is a stigma because people who buy drugs fuel violence, murder and misery in this country and around the world.
Whether they want to accept doing a line of coke or an ecstasy table once a week or whatever does this it is the case.
I'm very surprised there has not been more anti-drugs type marketing to stigmatise it even more as it is needed.

I've already pointed out that not knowing how many people take drugs and don't become addicted leaves a huge hole in psychological theories of addiction.

When people with objections to a psychological theory are dismissed as being in denial for not believing that psychological theory then that theory ceases to be falsifiable, and therefore becomes unscientific. I thank Karl Popper for that understanding.

Haven't read the full thread but this isn't about an unfair stigma around drug use; it's about two flatmates who jumped to a conclusion and wrongly accused someone of theft.

An acquaintance of mine who is a regular burglar and shoplifter hates the stigma that he only does it to fund a drug habit. He wouldn't dream of sinking that low.

Yes there is. I sometimes do e’s and weed and lsd, none of these are addictive; I just have a good time a few times a year. I have done so since 1994. I’ve never robbed anybody, murdered anybody, hurt anybody, never lost one job, LAUGHED MY ASS OFF, and went about my day. Sorry.
I have encountered crackheads and smack head that steal, and alcoholics….but alcohol is a good taxable drug and no one says anything.
peace x love x unity xxx