Finances and pensions need to be taught in high schools

[MutterlyClueless]

I am lucky in that I have a defined benefit work pension (I know they are a rarity these days, so think myself lucky). I pay contributions and my employer pays a higher amount.

All good, apart from the fact that I could have retired at my scheme pension age and received my pension, but instead continued to work a few more years to achieve a higher pension.

I thought because I had unpaid maternity leave and worked part-time in my career I needed to work longer to boost my reckonable years and pension amount.

But I now think that in some cases a bird in the hand is better than one in the bush.

Am I the only one that didn't understand the pension choices and carried on working full time when I didn't need to?

Pensions of all kinds should be on the curriculum in high schools and colleges along with other courses about finances to help people stay out of debt and plan for their future better.

Ya I agree it is difficult to leave politics out of it - luckily I know less about politics than money management- I have been in classes where teachers have been v v political
I try to be as impartial as possible!

@MumofSpud

great to hear but I suppose you have to recognise the challenges of being such superficially non problematic subjects into the class room.

it's great to have a debate about social housing but if it does our there is a political element (the same with taxation) so it would take level headed teacher to guide the discusion. (If I were a teacher and the class.disagreed with taxation I would politely ask the children who should pay my wages - if in the public sector of course)

Budgeting, money, types of accounts, interest rates etc are covered in PHSE.

The IFS offer a great level 2 course but there is little room in the curriculum to cover an examination option.

Within a Year 11 class there could be some teenagers with an understanding of shares and ISAs whereas others have no idea and families maybe struggling. Rich Dad Poor Dad scenario

Finance has to be squeezed in with relationships, sex Ed, British values, bullying , on line safety etc

Mids I'm.still struggling to understand your point.

I can't get the angle here?.

It'.seems you are trying to say that it's patronising to give school children these lessons in case some of them have really poor parents?

I'm not getting the political angles.

We should drum it into children you earn 20 a week ,you put x into a sipp. X into an s and s ISA..

X into shorter term saving and what's left
Spend!

I recall a friends of ours, maybe 5 years older, telling us when we were on our 20s that he was paying extra into his pension and we thought it very funny, I would hate to have to get a 15 year old to take an interest.
Somewhere along the line young people need to be disavowed of the idea of a cradle to the grave welfare state though, with the demands on the services now, we can't afford it.

I find this sort of defeatest idea odd.

Do you think it's easier to get them enaged in algebra? Or triangles....

One has to find the motivation key

@RockandRollsuicide

I think so. I think what we teach has to have universal relevance. All children will have equal need of the English language for example.

By teaching money management to a potentially financially diverse class there may be some where the techniques have an impact but you have to be aware that the discussion may highlight to some.pupils their relative poverty and not in a pleasant way. By portraying money management in a moral way i.e. saving is good and debt is bad then some children may look at their parents in a different light and judge their own family for their financial decision making.

For wealthier children inheritance, mortagages, equity, tax efficient saving may be of particular relevance but for poorer children debt management may have more resonance.

I always make the assumption that such lessons are directed towards poorer social groups in reality; I doubt Prince George when say in his school will need to know how to avoid debt.

I

Tricky.
No one ever gets taught these skills. You learn as you go along.

The world of finance and pensions is changing at a fast pace so what you learn about ISAs at 16 will probably be out of date when you start earning enough to put money into them.

I'm of the old school where Domestic Science is still an essential subject involving skills that we all still need , despite learning them forty years ago. Eg how to iron a dress or shirt , how to fillet a fish, how to wire a three pin plug, how to wash clothes, what do care labels mean, how to make a pie, how to make simple meals using what you have available, how to budget, how to change a fuse, how to make a simple curtain.

I could go on. Simple life skills are lacking in todays young people.
You've only to look at MN to see that.

I fully appreciate that changing fuses and wiring a plug are rare these days, but the occasion still arises.

It's easy to say 'YouTube it' but it's often not as clear .

Independence needs teaching , not how to create a share portfolio.

As posters have said, aspects of finance are covered in schools. The bottom line is you have the literacy skills to get online and look the stuff up.

You say you worked unnecessarily, but I'll bet your pension provider would have had all that info online/someone at the end of a phone. They all do modelling and projections for members. It's down to you.

And you really think the average 15 year-old is going to remember that?

So.
..a child whose parents can't save, the child shouldn't be armed with the knowledge how to save?? Incase it hurts some ones feelings??? They should Just be kept in dark?.

Mids...with some life experiences one realizes that children born to wealthy parents can still loose money..

Wealthy parents can loose everything and overnight..

Everyone needs these lessons
.

Don't put your eggs into one basket and start investing early into stocks and shares ISA, sipp... and what others saving vehicle's you can. It's a habit.... get into the habit early.

Budgeting and how interest works would be appropriate for a 16 year old as many start working during the summer then, and may soon be getting loans for uni.
But pensions are so varied and will undoubtedly change several times by the time the kids get anywhere near retiring.

Echt what aspects and by whom?

Im only aware of pitiful teaching by teachers who themselves are in debt through over spending and teaches who thinks investments are the dark arts.

Easy day,the students could have their own controlled pension a sipp that won't change...

I think what we teach has to have universal relevance.

The only subject this is true for is English Language and even that is a bit of a leap.

No subject could (or should) be relevant to all students.

Back to the OP, pension rules ch

@RockandRollsuicide

Learning about trigonometry and algebra leads to passing maths GCSEs and perhaps A levels with future university entrance? I know remembering what a cosec is may not be relevant in adult life but in our system it may be part of a foundation of a typical education. I think money management can be adequately covers through knowledge of basic mathematical operations, addition subtraction, fractions etc., It is then a personal choice how they are applied.

PHSE, by PHSE teachers. In every UK school I've taught in.

Are your year 10 excited and engaged re simultaneous equations which are likewise highly unlikely to be relevant to most of them?

@RockandRollsuicide

Of course the financial advice you are giving is correct.

However.....can you see that your advice on ISAs and other investment may have more relevance to a middle class.student than a working class one?

People do lose their fortunes but the prosaic reality is often fortunes are kept and inheritance is a great means to ensure money is kept in a family and the children don't necessarily need to learn a great deal about money managment.

I think students feelings should be a consideration for a teacher. I certainly wouldn't advocate teachers humiliating students even if that certainly wasn't the intention.

Mids, it sounds like you're talking about 1920s or something and inherited wealth crowd. However even then fortune's and houses and wealth is lost.

I think it's more important for DC of parent's who struggle to learn all this!
Why rob them.of information that will help their future?

No humiliation would come into anything

Earn, save, invest..and open a sipp and anyone on this thread think about opening a sipp for your DC and grandchildren!!

That's it.

Teaching the basics of personal finances at school is a great idea. Might help stop people taking out credit cards with an APR of 1000% etc... If all that kids take away from a lesson on pensions is that pensions are a "thing" they need to worry about at some point (& are likely to be the second most expensive thing they ever buy, after a house), that would help prompt them to research their pension options properly when they get to that stage.

Simultaneous equations don't change their answers, or how you solve them, 50 years later. That's the difference.

The basics of money management are covered. Schools should not be financial advisors. Another unnecessary role when adults are capable of using Google.

Pension taxation (which affects their efficiency as a savings vehicle) is far from straightforward!

Kids don't care about this stuff. Most have no idea what they would need to earn to have a decent standard of living as an adult, which is much closer to them than pensions. Which are so far off into the future as to be totally irrelevant. And by the time they get to pension age probably all of this will be out of date.

Schools have better things to do than teach kids about life - this is what parents, carers and other significant adults are for.