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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WIBU to pull out if they don't agree?

243 replies

NeedANewNameBriefly · 25/07/2022 14:50

Reposting for traffic

Short version - are these issues bad enough to withdraw from property purchase and collapse the chain. Or should this be expected when buying a house.

YABU - Even without a reduction, these issues are not that bad

YANBU - They definitely need to reduce the price a bit

Full version

We are trying to purchase our "forever home", have gone madly over budget on something that isn't perfect, but we are happy enough with. Survey has come back and the work that needs doing seems to be quite a lot. We want to renegotiate the price and based on repair costs for the most significant things, so not just decorate issues for example we want to go lower by about 12% (that's what I've worked it out as being) - estate agent (of course) is saying they won't agree but she doesn't have their actual answer yet. To complicate matters, they are overseas and we cannot reach vendors directly (currently trying via the solicitors instead though)

Basically, we are not quite sure the best way to approach this and how much of this the vendor thinks should have been priced in to our offer, bearing in mind we were unaware of 99% of the issues prior to the survey. The 1% is an issue we believe they should and could still deal with through their buildings insurance.

For context here are some of the issues:

•Repointing of brickwork to two chimney stacks
•Replace a number of missing, slipped and damaged roof tiles (particularly to the front and rear slopes). However, given their age it may be more economic to recover the whole roof rather than continuing to repair. This is our main issue - we want to replace not further patch up the roof. Lots of patchy repairs previously done apparently.
•Carry out crack repair to the front elevation.
•Replace some of the double-glazed units to the conservatory - showing damage
• Porch – replace several roof tiles, and carry out longer-term repair to the far right post which is damaged
•Install additional air bricks and replace damaged air bricks to the right side - doesn't have anywhere near enough. Those it has are damaged
•Reduce the height of the external ground level at the front (or install a French drain) - drain is right in front of doorstep and cut back the timber decking at the rear- to mitigate damp penetration
•Adjust five of the internal doors - almost all doors do not close at all within the house
•Rectify leak from the shower hose/replace shower in the family bathroom
•Hot water cylinder appears undersized/replacement needed
•Replace the waste pipe from the dishwasher and rectify leak from gulley surround
•Secure boarding to the timber decking and carry out timber repairs where required

OP posts:
Ticktocktuck · 26/07/2022 21:55

Wow the birches of eastwick are just lining up to stick the boot into the op. Do you all feel better about yourselves by putting her down?
Hide this thread op and just ignore all these random strangers who have nothing better to say do apparently than put you down

MercuryOnTheRise · 26/07/2022 21:56

We had a list of requests made like that after a survey and a reduction of less than 12%.

My response via the agent was "please inform the purchaser that I am not compelled to sell him my house, the price reflects the work that needs doing, and that the house will be remarketed from Saturday."

He crawled back by lunchtime with the original offer reinstated. The only person we've ever sold to who wasn't left a new home card and bottle of champagne. Soured the sale.

Nocutenamesleft · 26/07/2022 21:59

Replacing the whole roof tiles?!?

hehhehehehehe

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 26/07/2022 22:00

Let's see

•Repointing of brickwork to two chimney stacks
That's ongoing maintenance, cheap to do

•Replace a number of missing, slipped and damaged roof tiles (particularly to the front and rear slopes). However, given their age it may be more economic to recover the whole roof rather than continuing to repair. This is our main issue - we want to replace not further patch up the roof. Lots of patchy repairs previously done apparently.
Replacement is up to you. Small repairs will do the job just as well. You want it to look good, you pay!

•Carry out crack repair to the front elevation.
What kind of crack. Surface? Just fill it. Again cheap and ongoing maintenance

•Replace some of the double-glazed units to the conservatory - showing damage
You mean they are not brand new, may be blown but work OK. Aesthetics again

• Porch – replace several roof tiles, and carry out longer-term repair to the far right post which is damaged
Why the tiles? Damage to a supporting upright could be reasonable

•Install additional air bricks and replace damaged air bricks to the right side - doesn't have anywhere near enough. Those it has are damaged
Add air bricks? Why? Replace them? Cheap enough and easy to do

•Reduce the height of the external ground level at the front (or install a French drain) - drain is right in front of doorstep and cut back the timber decking at the rear- to mitigate damp penetration
That's your perspective. They live with it as is... again much of that is aesthetic

•Adjust five of the internal doors - almost all doors do not close at all within the house
Old house? None of ours fit the hole either. We see it as character. Again aesthetics

•Rectify leak from the shower hose/replace shower in the family bathroom
Now the leak I would agree with, they should have insurance and should have had that fixed

•Hot water cylinder appears undersized/replacement needed
Why not get a combi boiler instead? Normal upgrade in a new house

•Replace the waste pipe from the dishwasher and rectify leak from gulley surround
Waste pipe is cheap DIY job. Leak? Paint or actual repair?

•Secure boarding to the timber decking and carry out timber repairs where required
Erm, you might be reaching there.

Much of that would have been as seen when you viewed and made a bid based on what you actually saw. That isn't really fair on the vendor!

C0mfyChairP0se · 26/07/2022 22:10

British people are terrified of offending the vendor for some reason.

@NeedANewNameBriefly two things on that list sound serious, the crack and the tiles on the roof.

I would forward them the list and say you're reducing your offer by 3%

That could be enough to get the most urgent of those two jobs looked at.

In the context of a long list and you only mentioning two of the things, I think asking for 3% reduction mightn't seem too unreasonable and end up KILLing the deal.

petelacey · 26/07/2022 22:24

The types of repair work you are listing will end up costing well over £20,000 for a 3 bed house. Been there done that.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 26/07/2022 22:27

petelacey · 26/07/2022 22:24

The types of repair work you are listing will end up costing well over £20,000 for a 3 bed house. Been there done that.

Only because OP wants a new roof rather than a repair!

ThinWomansBrain · 26/07/2022 23:31

Samanabanana · 25/07/2022 15:16

YABVU. Buy a new build if you want perfection, all surveys come back like this!

cos new builds never have snagging issues to fix 😆

MamaBearBoo · 27/07/2022 04:32

The problem you have is they have obligation to replace the entire roof due to a few tiles having slipped.Also a lot of the issues you highlight you should have been able to see from your own inspection prior to putting in your offer - so it would be expected that you were already aware of these prior to making an offer! If you aren't happy you can pull out or sometimes a seller will offer an allowance to for you to carry out the works once the sale has gone through you would need to get quotes for this work though! I think YABU to ask for a12% reduction!!

MamaBearBoo · 27/07/2022 04:33
  • no obligation
RubyandPearl · 27/07/2022 07:25

Oh dear! Good luck OP. YABVVVU. Sorry!

Inkyblue123 · 27/07/2022 07:36

Regardless of what the issues are - and every house has them to a degree- you must decide on a price that works for you - and then the vendor decides whether to sell or not. What is the house worth to you ? The property will be of differing values to different people - I found that vendors who Inherited a property and therefore had no mortgage - were more likely to want a higher sales price whereas a family upsizing wanted a quick sale and were more willing to negotiate. I have offered on several properties that needed significant work - and my offers were rejected. But the homes were not worth the asking price to me. There is no such thing as the perfect house. Even when you self build ! Just be realistic in what you can afford… don’t let it become a burden.

Titsflyingsouth · 27/07/2022 08:08

It depends how serious some of these issues are. Loose tiles, airbricks, wonky doors etc are considered small issues and YABU to push for a reduction. However if the whole roof needs replacing or there are large structural cracks that need treatment then that might be leverage to lower the price.

We have managed to get 10% off our original price on a previous sale when the survey revealed some larger-scale structural issues. (We decided not to proceed in the end.)

However, I think the point someone raises about 'just because you are over budget doesn't mean the house is over-priced' is a good one. Your budget is irrelevant to the seller. What's important is whether the price accurately reflects the property/location. Would other similar properties in similar condition within the area command the same price? If so, YABU to push for a reduction.

RachaelN · 27/07/2022 08:11

Yikes. I think you are taking the Mick. House will be valued appropriately. Maybe you should have viewed it and taken lots of pictures so you could have taken this into consideration when you put in an offer.

AnwenDolly · 27/07/2022 08:37

It's a sellers' market. The vendor is extremely unlikely to accept your proposal.

The real problem seems to be that you can't afford to pay the market value and repairs. That is your problem, not the vendor's. However, it is probably a good reason to pull out of the sale.

Jeclop · 27/07/2022 10:26

Clymene · 26/07/2022 19:36

And right now in this market, seasoned vendors would tell you to piss off.

Perhaps, perhaps not. But it would be silly not to try.

I wouldn't back out of the sale if the vendor didn't come down and I loved the house. I would still try to get the best possible price I could. My husband would be even more ruthless. It's always worked for us.

Especially in London, where there is always more room for negotiation given the higher asking prices.

jillybeanclevertips · 27/07/2022 10:40

I would retract my offer completely, and make sure the reason given is that there is too much repairwork needed, and you'd like to renegotiate the price, and then look for your forever home elsewhere. If you are sold STC, it is OK to do this right up until contracts are exchanged.

commonsense61 · 27/07/2022 11:44

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Tessasanderson · 27/07/2022 12:01

I am still very suspicous of how long down the line this conversation is taking place. If its 1-2 weeks after accepting their bid, fair enough. If we are weeks/months down the line when the seller is trying to get their own house purchase in order then its complete CF.

OP has only replied they organised the survey straight away......

mybiggestfan · 27/07/2022 16:30

My survey came back much worse than that. It isnt a new house things will be wrong with it. I wanted the house, it was worth the money so I stumped up. Like others have said get a new house if you want everything like new.

NeedANewNameBriefly · 27/07/2022 16:56

Sigh. Thought this thread died out. I’ve read most reponses, will try address what I can in one go.

I was trying not to make my first post too long, by just listing a few things that were mentioned. The list in total was 23 items that I saw at first. When I got the report, there where 26 items. 2 of which highlighting potential issues with electricity and gas supply.

I have arranged for a roofer to go round and also an electrician and gas engineer. I have since also had back some budget costings most of the other issues (came to around £25k - and we don't have any intention of asking for everything thing on that list at all, we know most will be for us to do).

Unlike the every other single person on mumsnet, I had ZERO clue what any of these things would cost to fix. And did not notice/know to look out for most of the issues raised - we used a couple of lists we found on the internet to help us know what to ask/look for when viewing properties - based on this thread, I might even create a blog post to help others like us who could have used very detailed advice on what to watch for (maybe). The house looked “shiny”, freshly painted inside and at the front outside too (though not painted at the side or the back. Nicely staged etc. Clearly our lack of experience has shown.

To a pp - kindly note I said we were unaware of 99% not aware.

The way the house sits, it’s a hipped roof (another new term I’ve learned) and whilst from the bottom of the garden (looking at a picture of it again), I can definitely see something is awry, because the colours are uneven/differ, I still even now could tell if that was actual damage and I can’t really see the roof at either side because of the properties on either side being so close.

The statement that concerned me was that it may be more economical to replace than repair. To me that sounded like the costs would be pretty similar. However, the surveyor’s budget cost list has the (external) roof repairs at around £5,500 and a total replacement at £25k. So even I don’t think it’s beyond economical repair on those figures. But if it’s going to be needing money spent on it every year to keep it together, then that would be a different consideration.

Someone mentioned the cylinders- thank you! I’d been meaning to look up what they even were really/why they were needed and I forgot. I’ve only ever lived in places with combis / didn’t know this was some sort of (old-fashioned?) alternative. We will definitely be replacing the boiler for a normal one.

As previously mentioned (a few times) , the survey undertaken was a level 3 survey (a structural survey, in old money).

Again, apologies, but I haven’t gone back to double check names and tag people. But at least one person said that the report was actually quite positive in some ways - clearly there are more things we could have read that didn’t get mentioned as you say, so happy to think of it in that context now also.

The surveyor specifically said to us that he isn’t about a million disclaimers and cover your a** type statements. He made clear calls, to the extent possible. I think the only thing he didn’t go into detail on were the state of the floorboards under carpet (because he couldn’t of course rip that up), so I’m very happy with the work he has done.

He has categorically said the movement was not caused by subsidence - so presumably if that ever turned out to be untrue, this is where his public liability insurance would have to kick in. Because we would of course sue. I’m happy to take the word of a very experienced chartered surveyor on that and put the Mather to bed.

To the weirdo that I’ve already responded to once but who has posted the same question a bunch of times - why are you so invested personally invested the timeline? The owners have emigrated. They are not in a chain/waiting on the sale of this house for an onward purchases. As I have already said, from acceptance of offer to now it’s been a matter of weeks. We are still waiting for their responses to our solicitors enquiries. So do please untwist your knickers.

On the budget - I’ve set us a budget. We are are over it BUT even with interest rate rises on the horizon and a bunch of traits to do, it’s will still be affordable (although we have taken a 5 year fix). I’m very cautious - which is why we bought the house we live in now. Because I wanted to keep costs comfortably below our means (we were newly married with no kids at the time) whilst we figured out life as “grownups”. Whilst the property we have now isn’t awful, there are a few issues that we simply can’t do anything about, which means it doesn’t work for the family we have now. Otherwise we would have extended it and stayed here. Now the bigger houses we could have afforded if we stretched ourselves back then cost silly money. And our present home hasn’t gone up by nearly as much. So this time, I’m trying to take that into account and buy a house we know our family will be comfortable in in the long term.

I called it a forever home not because I love it - I am really not the type to get all sentimental about bricks and mortar, but because it’s the home we plan to stay in until our children are grown. Perhaps the better phrase was “long term”. New build versus old was less important to me. What I wanted was good square footage and consistently the new builds we viewed fell short on that front - on the bedrooms especially.

PIL himself has now said trying to get £150k off was more of a CF move - based on the fact he knows how agents overprice things on purpose. He didn’t actually base that figure on what he thought the repairs would cost. This particular agent is well known for that (is. overvaluing), which is why the house I’m sure sat on the market for a while and was reduced twice before we went to view it (and even then, was still priced on the high side). Had they priced it right in the first place, I’m sure it would have flown like everything else was, at the time.

Anyway, I am grateful for all that I have learned from this post, but I've had enough of it now. So I'm out and won’t be checking any further posts. We will be requesting a reduction - it won’t be 12, probably in the 2-3% range at this point. But don’t yet have all the information I need to make a final decision on all that.

Thanks to all those who were kind and helpful with your responses (sorry if I didn’t reply to you directly). And even to those of you who were not as kind, but still helpful I guess I’m somewhat thankful to you too.

OP posts:
pilkywilkymoansalot · 27/07/2022 16:57

We have built new and converted 18 properties, The price should reflect the state of the property on the day, give or take, in this market they will tell you to get lost, if the identical house next door is flawless it will be £40000 more! Move on and stop stretching yourself, but then again some vendors are trying it on at the minute, supply and demand.

ItsJustLittleOldMe · 28/07/2022 08:12

We have just bought our first house which was at the very top of our budget but also a fixer upper. We will live in it and save to do it up as we go as it was more than we really wanted to spend but this house is ideal for what we want in the future but even I know that list is ridiculous! And a 12% reduction 😅 good luck with that…

SillyMeee · 28/07/2022 14:35

NeedANewNameBriefly · 25/07/2022 14:50

Reposting for traffic

Short version - are these issues bad enough to withdraw from property purchase and collapse the chain. Or should this be expected when buying a house.

YABU - Even without a reduction, these issues are not that bad

YANBU - They definitely need to reduce the price a bit

Full version

We are trying to purchase our "forever home", have gone madly over budget on something that isn't perfect, but we are happy enough with. Survey has come back and the work that needs doing seems to be quite a lot. We want to renegotiate the price and based on repair costs for the most significant things, so not just decorate issues for example we want to go lower by about 12% (that's what I've worked it out as being) - estate agent (of course) is saying they won't agree but she doesn't have their actual answer yet. To complicate matters, they are overseas and we cannot reach vendors directly (currently trying via the solicitors instead though)

Basically, we are not quite sure the best way to approach this and how much of this the vendor thinks should have been priced in to our offer, bearing in mind we were unaware of 99% of the issues prior to the survey. The 1% is an issue we believe they should and could still deal with through their buildings insurance.

For context here are some of the issues:

•Repointing of brickwork to two chimney stacks
•Replace a number of missing, slipped and damaged roof tiles (particularly to the front and rear slopes). However, given their age it may be more economic to recover the whole roof rather than continuing to repair. This is our main issue - we want to replace not further patch up the roof. Lots of patchy repairs previously done apparently.
•Carry out crack repair to the front elevation.
•Replace some of the double-glazed units to the conservatory - showing damage
• Porch – replace several roof tiles, and carry out longer-term repair to the far right post which is damaged
•Install additional air bricks and replace damaged air bricks to the right side - doesn't have anywhere near enough. Those it has are damaged
•Reduce the height of the external ground level at the front (or install a French drain) - drain is right in front of doorstep and cut back the timber decking at the rear- to mitigate damp penetration
•Adjust five of the internal doors - almost all doors do not close at all within the house
•Rectify leak from the shower hose/replace shower in the family bathroom
•Hot water cylinder appears undersized/replacement needed
•Replace the waste pipe from the dishwasher and rectify leak from gulley surround
•Secure boarding to the timber decking and carry out timber repairs where required

This property isnt in Stockport is it ?

Tessasanderson · 28/07/2022 14:46

To the weirdo that I’ve already responded to once but who has posted the same question a bunch of times - why are you so invested personally invested the timeline? The owners have emigrated. They are not in a chain/waiting on the sale of this house for an onward purchases. As I have already said, from acceptance of offer to now
it’s been a matter of weeks. We are still waiting for their responses to our solicitors enquiries. So do please untwist your knickers.

Haha, sorry i come across as a weirdo. If thats the case it wasnt meant. However i believe in straight answers. If someone asks you how long its been then a simple answer is 3 weeks/4 weeks/48 weeks.....see what i mean. In all your answers you didnt give a simple answer which usually indicates CF going on. Anyhow, from your "matter of weeks" answer i am assuming not very long so that isnt CF territory to me. I would have given you much more benefit of the doubt.

Anyhow, tbh its all a bit he said, she said, missing info and opportunist for me. I'm not really bothered but hope you end up getting what you want.