WIBU to pull out if they don't agree?

[NeedANewNameBriefly]

Reposting for traffic

Short version - are these issues bad enough to withdraw from property purchase and collapse the chain. Or should this be expected when buying a house.

YABU - Even without a reduction, these issues are not that bad

YANBU - They definitely need to reduce the price a bit

Full version

We are trying to purchase our "forever home", have gone madly over budget on something that isn't perfect, but we are happy enough with. Survey has come back and the work that needs doing seems to be quite a lot. We want to renegotiate the price and based on repair costs for the most significant things, so not just decorate issues for example we want to go lower by about 12% (that's what I've worked it out as being) - estate agent (of course) is saying they won't agree but she doesn't have their actual answer yet. To complicate matters, they are overseas and we cannot reach vendors directly (currently trying via the solicitors instead though)

Basically, we are not quite sure the best way to approach this and how much of this the vendor thinks should have been priced in to our offer, bearing in mind we were unaware of 99% of the issues prior to the survey. The 1% is an issue we believe they should and could still deal with through their buildings insurance.

For context here are some of the issues:

•Repointing of brickwork to two chimney stacks
•Replace a number of missing, slipped and damaged roof tiles (particularly to the front and rear slopes). However, given their age it may be more economic to recover the whole roof rather than continuing to repair. This is our main issue - we want to replace not further patch up the roof. Lots of patchy repairs previously done apparently.
•Carry out crack repair to the front elevation.
•Replace some of the double-glazed units to the conservatory - showing damage
• Porch – replace several roof tiles, and carry out longer-term repair to the far right post which is damaged
•Install additional air bricks and replace damaged air bricks to the right side - doesn't have anywhere near enough. Those it has are damaged
•Reduce the height of the external ground level at the front (or install a French drain) - drain is right in front of doorstep and cut back the timber decking at the rear- to mitigate damp penetration
•Adjust five of the internal doors - almost all doors do not close at all within the house
•Rectify leak from the shower hose/replace shower in the family bathroom
•Hot water cylinder appears undersized/replacement needed
•Replace the waste pipe from the dishwasher and rectify leak from gulley surround
•Secure boarding to the timber decking and carry out timber repairs where required

You risk losing their goodwill. You can renegotiate a house price after a survey but 12% is a hefty price drop. They might even pull out and decide they would prefer someone easier to deal with. That is part of the whole process of buying a house. Not just the price, but how difficult are the buyers going to be? If you start off like this then they might go back to square one. If you do this now, they will think , will you price them down again nearer to signing ? If someone did that to me I would walk away. The estate agent, unless they have totally overpriced the property ( and you will have an idea if that was so ) knows the market and has priced it accordingly.

My last 2 houses sound similar.

Last was a detached 4 bedroom 1900's house with all the issues you describe. We replaced the whole roof it cost £12k around 4 years ago. We had repointing issues, doors that didn't close etc but they didn't actually cause any problems to the house. Perhaps in the long term they would but it wasn't things that needed immediately fixed so we never did. Aside from the roof, we replaced a window which leaked. The new roof was a major selling point and to be honest, we probably got more than it cost us back when we sold so if I was selling I'm not sure I would want the hassle of replacing the roof to make a sale happen unless I was going to get compensated. From the pavement you can see the general condition of a roof. Once in the house, unless it's all been painted recently, you can access whether there has been water ingress. If there hasn't then a new roof is a nice to have. The previous movement/subsidence was deemed long standing from the basic report, there were a few areas in the house where old panelling no longer matched up and there were gaps in corners eg. Around window cornacing. We never had it looked into, the house was very old and we decided that most houses will have some movement. It was unknown why the movement had occurred, we didn't pursue it nor did we repair it.

I don't think any of your issues are notable and as a seller would not come down on any of them except, the only concerning one is subsidence but it depends on the severity.

A previous house I bought had suffered significant subsidence and many of the floor levels were seriously off. I think this house was from the 30's from memory. Prior to buying the house we had a specialised survey and the movement was confirmed as historic. It had actually affected half the street and the council had been involved about 50 years prior. I was comfortable with it and bought the house however, it made selling the house much more difficult despite having all the paperwork in place. Many people are concerned that where subsidence has occurred, it will happen again.

I'd laugh at your list, they are all things you fix as you go along once youve bought the house, 2 roof tiles need replacing so it needs an entire new roof? You are a cf, it's a sellers market at the moment, you've put in a high offer thinking they'll get so far down the track and then you'll drop to what you want to pay. I think you are taking the piss. 12% off, if it's a 300k house that's considerable.

Nobody's being a 'meanie', it's your ridiculous reverse that gets on people's last nerve.

Ps. Loads of things in old houses would not pass safety inspections of todays standards. Most people will live in old houses without ever fixing these so called problems or bringing them to a modern day standard. Many will probably be unaware that their homes don't comply because the thing in question likely operates fine eg. we had an attic converted and all the doors required to be fire doors on the top floor. You won't have fire doors installed on the 3rd floor of an old house. The plug sockets are likely to be too low and the surveyor will say you might need to rewire. If you have glass doors, they won't be CE marked. Unless you buy a new build which come with their own issues you will consistently face these things. I always took the view that if the house had stood for 100 years it must be relatively fine. Perhaps niave but iv always lived fine with minor problems.

TBH there doesn't seem anything too scary there - I assume the house was about 1940 or so ? The surveyor usually highlights stuff like this when in actual fact it would last a few years !

I think you are going over the top here. To vendors, prospective purchasers can be a bit of a pita. When I had a property was up for sale, one family came to visit several times, cooed over the house, said it was their favourite, commented how nothing needed to be done (completely redecorated, new boiler, new roof etc). When they made an offer it was £100k under the asking price "because it needed so much done to it". Eh? They had just been saying how nothing needed to be done; they even said it was to their taste. I could tell the estate agent was a bit nervous telling me. I offered to negotiate, but they declined, so I just said no. In fact, I suggested another property that the estate agent had on their books might be more in keeping with their budget. Just because you are over budget doesn't mean the house needs to be reduced in price. If they carry out the repairs, the property will probably go up in price (although the increase probably won't be as much as the repairs). These issues are not serious defects to the fabric of the building. The vendor will probably say "next" and move on.

Sorry OP but I'd avoid this like the plague, uneven flooring, doors that don't close and movement all sound like symptoms of subsidence. It's also unlikely that much/any of the issues that you've raised would be covered by insurance either. At the bare minimum I'd be getting a more in depth survey completed.

You asking for a price reduction for even 1 of those things makes you look like a time waster. The surveyor hasn’t said the roof needs replacing any more than they’ve said you need a new kitchen - the buyer shouldn’t have to pay for improvements you want to make! The surveyor has noted a few minor fixes, totally standard for almost all houses apart from new builds.

The word subsidence has not been used in the report at all, but it was stated as having more than normal movement. Going to go educate myself a bit on what subsidence actually is...

Get a structural report if you’re worried. But why bother with that when you don’t even want to pay for the other minor fixes? If the house is too expensive for you to be able to afford to maintain it then don’t buy it.

We're trying to buy a house which has thrown up similar issues and more. The only things we're going to attempt to negotiate some money off on are two bits that wouldn't have been part of 'sold as seen' - potential rotten floor joists and dodgy electrical work. The rest it's our own bloody fault for buying it!

One section alone has 26 tiles missing - several sections with missing tiles. But tbh, I have no idea how many that is in the context of a whole roof. The surveyor said so many areas need redoing it may work out more economical to redo the roof.

The house was on the market for a while and was reduced twice before we had our offer accepted

Don't see how any of that would be covered by building insurance.
I might knock a few thousand off for roof repair but some of that stuff should have been self evident and is from 'deferred maintenance', meaning not damage just stuff that the sellers have not been on top of.
You'd have to get actual quotes to negotiate any money off - I wouldn't go by a surveyor report (which the sellers will want to see).
You aren't buying a new build. There will always be ongoing maintenance. Stuff like the hot water cylinder - is it working now? If yes then you can knock that off your list - no seller is going to replace it just because someone thinks it's undersized.

@angieloumc

I take no issue re the person annoyed because I didn't initially disclose this was an issue between two other people. In fact, seeing how annoying most have found that I will be sure not to do it again. The meanie comment was specifically directed that a person who said I'd come on here just to brag

And to all who were annoyed, I do apologise- I genuinely wanted advice and my approach has clearly put backs up. I'm not too proud to admit I was wrong. Mea culpa

Water pressure in the house is rated as ok to not very good in different parts of the house - I'm assuming that's related to the cylinder issue?

We did have a level 3 structure survey done.

We will fix everything that needs fixing, in order of importance. For us what I don't want to do is fix things that the vendors should be doing - the house to me looked like it didn't need much done when we saw it. They have done the usual things to make it look aesthetically pretty, so for me having a list of 23 items in that email (when I'd asked the surveyor to give me a quick/red flag summary) was a surprise to us. And that didn't even include the two red flags he had put in the report.

PIL has this afternoon helped us arrange for builders to go round and look at the roof, gas and electrics as a matter of priority this week - we'll they are now liaising with the estate agent to do it this week. The rest we intend to resolve ourselves as need be.

"Re "new builds" they can have big problems and IMO built like cardboard unless you DIY or get your own specs from the bottom up. Then there is the brisk the estate may not be finnished and or works go on for a long time."

What nonsense. My last two houses have been new builds and they have been built to a much higher standard than DD's 1950s ex council house where you can hear every conversation through the wall. My Victorian terrace was the same. Next door's kids used to wake me up in the night with their crying and I could never keep it warm.

My current neighbour has 5 under 10 and two are severely autistic and have big meltdowns. I don't hear a thing and my house stays warm for very little cost even when well below freezing.

I think OP is mad to continue with the purchase of a house that appears to have a lot wrong with it.

@Cj19877 - I think/thought we had the most in depth type of report that could be done. Is there some other type of survey we could/should have gotten? A few people seem to be saying this.

Do you regret the purchase? Or, assuming you get the money off, are you fairly at peace with the rest of the issues?

Around 1910 they said...

Sounds like a standard survey I’m afraid. Nothing that reflects the integrity of the building, and the vendor will most definitely reject a request to reduce the price.

From the report (which I received AFTER my initial post).

There are four chimney stacks, two are built over the left flank, one is built over the right flank, and there is a large stack built over the rear slope.
The stacks are built of brick and appear to be stable. The stacks to the left side are leaning outwards slightly, however, this appears long-standing.
Brick detail collars are incorporated to the top of each and there are a number of chimney pots fitted which have been installed with (assumed) mortar flaunching. Note the chimney pot to the front left stack is fairly spalled and longer-term replacement is advised.
The brickwork and mortar pointing (between the bricks) to the right and rear chimney stacks is in reasonable condition, these appear to have been repointed within the last 10 years. Note the mortar pointing to the two left stacks is heavily eroded and repointing works are required.
Also noted there are several heavily spalled bricks to all four stacks, these would all benefit from being replaced.
The stacks have lead flashings to their base, which all appear to be securely fixed.

The main roof comprises a traditional timber pitched and hipped roof which incorporates a large gable to the front and a hip to the rear.
The roof has a covering of plain clay tiles, it should be noted these are the original tile coverings. The following observations were noted:

• A considerable number of tiles have been replaced over the years
• There are still approximately 25 No. slipped, missing cracked and/or spalled tiles to all four roof slopes which need replacing (the left and right slopes are in a better condition than the front and rear)
• Several hip tiles have been replaced with bonnet tiles, not arris tiles (to match the others) which is fairly unsightly.
• Ornamental clay tiles are fitted to the ridge, these are all in place and seem reasonably well fixed. - The valleys are formed in clay valley tiles, these are in fair condition but several cracked and spalled tiles were noted which need replacing
• The overhang to the verge (front gable) is adequate, however, a number of slipped tiles are noted

Whilst the tiled coverings to the roof slopes are in fair condition for their age, general repairs are needed particularly to the front and rear slopes. With careful maintenance and repairs, the roof coverings should be OK for another 20+ years, however, given its age, it may be more economic to recover the whole roof rather than continuing to repair (longer-term goal should be renewal).

If repairs are required to the chimneys, to do this work safely and avoid damaging the roof covering, contractors will have to use appropriate access equipment (for example scaffolding, hydraulic platforms, etc.).

When talking about the loft/inside, this was also said:

There is a timber boarded covering to the underside of the roof tiles. Due to the age of the roof, there is no secondary waterproof barrier (roofing felt). It is normal for properties of this age and type not to have roofing felt, however, without this, water may get into the roof space, especially during windy weather. Whilst there were no signs of any water ingress at the time of inspection, we did note some daylight towards the rear slope (due to slipped/ missing tiles). As previously mentioned there are a number of slipped, damaged and missing tiles which all need to be replaced.

I have never dealt with a roofing issue in my life before now - my experience is based on what has come from Google and this thread. Maybe this is nothing to worry about and easy to fix. I just came here fro some help

Honestly, I'm a little out of touch with the survey levels, but I just find it a little odd that they've mentioned movement without investigating these other red flags that are so often connected. The other warning signs can often be covered in the short term (cracks etc). Did the walls look freshly painted? In terms of the previous movement, I'd absolutely want to know more about this and how it was resolved.

@Cj19877 Cracks were mentioned in various places inside and outside. And yes, the house did look pretty freshly painted.

Just double checked - we definitely have a full, structural survey performed by RICS surveyor

Haven't read the whole thread but patchy works done on roof already, cracks in bathroom ?Down to movement in foundation. I would pull out of the sale altogether.