Is it normal for so many people to leave London primary schools?

[thejall]

Sorry for the crap title.
We have lost an awful lot of children from my dcs school classes these last few yrs. Some have moved to private & some have left London. Is this normal movement or has covid exacerbated it? The local schools are excellent & Ive never known them to have places whereas they all do now.

I'm in z2/3 & grew up close by but my mum doesn't remember much change & her neighbours are still the same from decades ago whereas lots of my neighbours have also left but the area is very different to how it was when I was young.

I have found it all quite unsettling & definitely put less effort into friendships as what is the point when so transitionary.

Having said that I'm moving further out to z4/5 as the majority of my friends who I grew up with are that way or in Surrey. Same for DH who is also a Londoner. I wouldn't have considered this if I hadn't lost so many friends. Will there be similar movement in the outer zones?

Yes it is. Our experience (Zone 5) is that even six or seven years ago the class rosters changed frequently. Having a high number of families in rental properties or a lot of families whose main earners are employed in industries with high churn rates exacerbates this.

Leavers after Brexit plus Covid.

Having said that I'm moving further out to z4/5 as the majority of my friends who I grew up with are that way or in Surrey. Same for DH who is also a Londoner. I wouldn't have considered this if I hadn't lost so many friends.

Is your only motivation to move out to zone 4 or 5, that of not having the same friendship group?

or maybe you’re moving out to z4/5 and Surrey for the same reasons your friend did.

as in, you can buy more for your money. more green space, something magnified after lockdown. More perceived things to do in the area / quality of life.

And with cost of living rising, a lot of folk can’t buy the things and activities that make living in inner London worth living.

But self deception is a funny thing and is king on Mumsnet. So by all means @thejall tell us that everyone else is doing the things, and you are the constant that would never change.

if TLDR then growing up in an area does not mean you will have an inexorable right to that area. Change is the only constant in the universe that is London.

Yes loads of people tend to plan ahead for secondary schools and move out to the 'burbs well in advance in order to be in the catchment area/get prepared for the relevant 11+ etc etc. They also tend to move for more space and more of a stable population (ie not be one of the ones 'left behind' in London). We lived in Zone 2 and it started happening from year 1 onwards (those were the most organised people) the less organised (like me) did it from years 3/4 onwards (I'm talking about my experience pre-covid) - people didn't necessarily move very far (often just to zone 5/6) but far enough for schools/stable community.

I think it's fairly normal. We moved out of W Hampstead when DC1 was 6, out his his state school class of 30, only 2 who started in reception actually finished Year 6. A couple left for private school after reception, three more in year 1, a lot at the end of Year 2. London is very transient generally.

In DS2 school after we moved out of London, of the 40 who started reception only 3 out of 40 had left by the end of year 6!

I'd move to Surrey if you want more stability.

Is your only motivation to move out to zone 4 or 5, that of not having the same friendship group?

Not the only reason, we had never considered moving pre covid but post covid I do want to be closer to friends as they were fantastic & rallied round when I had a serious health scare & I guess I want to invest more time into those friendships. Plus we lost fil to covid so DH wants to be closer to his mum who moved further out some yrs ago. We don't have any friends in z4 they are further out or in Surrey, none of them moved out recently, they all settled there years ago before dc.
And of course increased remote working has made commuting less of a consideration.

So by all means @thejall tell us that everyone else is doing the things, and you are the constant that would never change.

Where have I said that?

if TLDR then growing up in an area does not mean you will have an inexorable right to that area.

I'm not sure what the above has to do with my post?

I think covid changes have made ppl less fearful of making big changes in their lives (moving house/schools/jobs etc). They have had a taste of upheaval and realised its not that bad.

@gwenneh interesting that it happens in outer zones too. Where we are looking to move too we have found it quite tight for spaces which is very different to where we are currently.

@underneaththeash wow that is a lot. It's funny because some of my old friends are friends I met in yr 5 & Ive been friends with since. Similar for DH.

I don't want to move to Surrey so I will just have to get used to it!

Yes.
Eldest class only had 25 at the end of year 6.
They had 6 or 7 move out and in over the 7 years.
Youngest was much the same.

Families moving to Ireland, back to Europe, Australia, up north etc. couple moving to private school.

I think in general people feeling moving in primary education is better than moving in secondary. Some move for secondary catchment etc.

@MsFogi I'm lucky that I don't have a huge issue with secondary schools. I work in an excellent one.

We have lost a lot in the last few years. Many now going out of London. We did lose some to private in years 2 and 5 but now those moving house to live in the country and put their children into private school there is growing. We do have people with babies and young toddlers moving in but unfortunately they won't be in our school for a few years so our budget will be affected.

DS's class lost one child at the end of Y2 (moved locally) and another just now at the end of Y2 (moved to Edinburgh). I expect there will be more as they move up the school because the local post primary options are not great.

It is common here (Walthamstow). Schools that are impossible to get into in reception have half a dozen spaces by Y6.

Yes on one hand it's been good for one of a shyer dc to have a much smaller class this year but the flip side is the impact on budgets.

In London there's a lot more movement in primary

I recognise the unsettled feeling. We lived in zone 3 when our kids were small, and everyone left, including us eventually. We were really friendly with our neighbours, they had young kids too, and we made friends with other parents through NCT and baby groups. But whenever a group of parents got together we'd always start talking about the next move, people were always either planning their move out, or thinking about it. I did find it disconcerting, especially when I'd made a particularly good friend who I enjoyed spending time with, you never knew how long they'd stay. But then we did what everyone else was doing and moved out too, and this was long before Covid. Of the people we knew who stayed long enough for their children to start primary school, they only stayed a couple of years max before moving out. I think Zone 2-3 basically needs loads of infant schools, because I can't imagine that any of the older years are anywhere near full. Where we lived had lots of pre-schoolers, but there was very little evidence of many teenagers. Tbh it was a relief to move out (we moved to zone 6), where people tend to stay. At least I don't worry about my friends, or my kids' friends, moving away anymore. Everyone here seems to stay put, at least until their kids are in secondary school. I don't think it's a Covid thing, although it may have been exacerbated by Covid. I'm my experience it's due to London house prices, as well as the desire by those who have the means to do so, to move into the catchment areas of good secondary schools.

We have lost 9 over the last 2 years & taken in 4 in my eldest dcs class so class is not at capacity although assume more will join after the summer.

When I lived in Islington there were eight of us in our NCT group. Now kids are 10, there’s only one left in London at all. She was the only born there with family nearby.
I think it’s quite normal. Particularly in London, but I think people do also move around more than when I was a child.

@ToadiesCouzin yes house prices are definitely prohibitive. And yes I have wondered where all the tweens/teens are in my neck of the woods although there are quite a fee secondaries near us both state & independent so they must exist!

Zone 5 here. My year 1 has had 3 children leave (and be replaced). The other classes in the year have been similar I think. The difference is the spaces always get filled, as there is lots of pressure on spaces and it is a good school.

One child moved abroad, the others I don't know. Some of DDs friends' parents have talked about moving in a year or 2. We moved out of zone 2/3 to settle here, but others are going further, either for more space or to be close to family.

I work in zone 2. Some schools have considerably smaller classes and some have closed.

I lost all my NCT friends pre primary but expected that. I guess I didn't realise so much movement in primary.

I work in zone 2. Some schools have considerably smaller classes and some have closed

yes I've read that some are in quite a bit of trouble, low birth rate making it worse I guess.

@BendingSpoons how did you find moving from 3 to 5?

I now live in the boring suburbs (Bromley), and there's teenagers everywhere! It's very noticeable how many more there are compared to where we used to live.

It's been great for me. We have more space (a house with garden instead of a flat) and more of a community. It's not as busy in terms of traffic and busy pavements. We are also near my parents and where I grew up. DH has found it harder being further from friends, who are mainly still pre-children and living more centrally.

The main thing I miss is choice of restaurants! We used to be able to walk to 10-15 restaurants of different cuisines. Choice is much more limited now.