Am I too old?

[user1472151176]

I'm nearly 40 and considering training to become a solicitor or lawyer. I would be completely starting from scratch. I work part time and have 2 kids in primary school. I am looking at studying with the open University. Am I completely bonkers? Does anyone have any advice or gems of wisdom?

If you're up for the challenge and your children won't suffer, why not? For what it's worth, Nicole Kidman's sister was doing a post-grad law degree in her 40s.

If you think you can work as a solicitor (recently had a relative who tried his hardest to land a legal job after graduating with honours) but for some reason, just couldn't. He's now working in consulting and I feel it's a waste of a degree.

You should absolutely go for it. You are less than halfway through your working life - do what fills you with excitement.

One life. Do it no regrets. Good luck.

Training is fine. I think you need specialist advice about whether you will realistically get a job though.

How much support do you have? You already work part-time, so presumably you've got some good childcare arrangements in place and/or a supportive family?

I don't think you're bonkers to retrain, especially if you have people around you to lean on, but if it's just you and the kids, it's going to be very very tough.

Hi OP,

I don’t want to rain on your parade OP but please don’t underestimate the cost of qualifying (£30-£35,000 in today’s money), the time involved (6 years pt for an OU law degree, plus probably 2 years pt for legal practice plus training contract or SQE), and most importantly, the difficulties you could experience gaining employment as a solicitor, particularly as a mature student.

I completed a law conversion course at a similar age as a part time student. Despite several years’ experience in a relevant field, good results, an excellent track record in gaining job interviews elsewhere, further work experience shadowing a solicitor, completion of a winter vacation scheme, a placement with the Crown Prosecution Service and two years’ experience as a volunteer with a legal charity ….

On completing the course I received:

0 interviews for training contracts
0 interviews for (no experience required) paralegal roles.
1 job offer for six months’ cover as a legal assistant on NMW
1 job offer with the CPS as a legal administrator on NMW plus £2, 000

I was lucky! No other mature student on my course received any relevant job offer!

As I had not given up my full time job, I decided not to risk the cost of a Legal Practice course.

I have now gained much more lucrative employment elsewhere (data security).

Have a look at the SQE system. The situation outlined above is thankfully becoming a thing of the past. DP is halfway through SQE training and has worked full time throughout (first as a paralegal, and now as a trainee) and a formal training contract is now required for qualification. Two years' full time equivalent work experience would apply.

however, study outside full time work is definitely required and the exams are not easy. There was a 50% pass rate for the first SQE1 sitting.

in addition, he moved to a specialist law firm from consulting in the same field, so had contacts for getting a foot in the door.

He's got no regrets and is very happy in his new career.

Though, one thing: do you already have a degree or would you be starting from scratch?

Do you have any qualifications that would enable you to do a law degree? At your age honestly if you're literally starting from scratch- access bourse, degree, then training contract it would be very long.

I retrained and did a doctorate at 32 with dc and that was hard enough (but only 3 years and I got a bursary). I already had a bachelors degree and masters. I wouldn't have started from scratch even at that age.

My first message below should have said formal training contract is NOT required.

You'll be working till you're 67/68, so you still have another almost 30 years ahead of you. Why not make it something you're passionate about. I'd go for it, however I would look at employment potential at the end of it. I have a science degree form years ago but fancied retaining. I eventually decided on nursing as there were solid employment opportunities at the end of it. I wouldn't have done a degree if there wasn't a solid chance of employment in the field at the end of the degree.

The only possible barrier I could see would be getting a training contract after your degree. Apparently there's a lot of competition - could you still study tho and become a company secretary?

I say never too old for anything but if you have two kids you want to see over the coming years then why would you enter a highly competitive career that sees people working 12 hour days for years?

I'd say you're not too old but you are too involved in parenthood to do such a thing.

Thank you for all the messages of encouragement and advice. It's something I've always wanted to do but got too distracted in my younger years and then along came marriage and kids and my husbands career.
To be honest I didn't realise it was so difficult to get a job as a solicitor in terms of how many jobs were available. I have considered starting with the OU and then trying to get a placement and work my way up whilst working in the relevant field.
I do have limited support, which is what makes me so hesitant but I feel if I don't act now I will wake up one day with my best years behind me and full of regret.

I realise a full degree part time with the OU will be 6 years and then further training is required after which is all very daunting to be honest

It’s not getting a job as a solicitor that’s difficult. It’s the training contract before that that’s the hardest bit. The competition is fierce and many graduates will be taking NMW jobs just to get a foot in the door. If you can get a chance in the door maybe as a paralegal you might be able to train up and make it happen.

Lawyer of 20+ years here. Former training partner in an international firm, now in-house managing a CILEX-qualified assistant solicitor and a legal assistant doing the SQE.

My strong advice is don’t do it.

First, training contracts/opportunities (including SQE roles that lead to meaningful employment as a qualified solicitor) are rare as rocking horse shit.

Second, the market for lawyers is already massively oversupplied and gets worse every year. The decent work available is impacted by AI, outsourcing and - frankly - partners taking advantage of the flood of cheap labour by keeping paralegals on MW with a vague promise of a TC and “sweating the assets”.

Third, the money is largely terrible. Unless you’re brilliant (Oxbridge/RG, first class degree and loads of extracurricular) you’re unlikely to be offered a city law job (and that’s where the big money is). However, even if you are, you’ll basically never see your kids because the hours expectations are brutal. Non-corporate types of law pay pretty badly: you can earn decent money in the regional office of an international firm, but the hours expectations are not much less than the city. Anything high street/9 to 5 is going to be piss poor money.

Fourth, law firms are not great employers. Pensions and benefits are minimal and ime flexibility is non-existent (although they do at least pay lip service to it these days).

It’s just not worth it anymore. Every time I recruit a junior lawyer I turn down scores of applicants with CV’s much better than mine were at that stage. And many are on MW.

I know lots of people will say “go girl, it’s your life etc”. And it is. But while you might regret not having a crack at it, you will definitely regret getting into debt and sacrificing family time to work for buttons as a paralegal indefinitely.

Would you enjoy the advocacy side of things? Because I know loads of barristers who’ve had previous careers, and chambers generally don’t mind at all when they recruit if people aren’t fresh young things straight out of uni - in fact it’s usually a bonus.

Honestly - chances of working as a solicitor are practically zero.

That said, a law degree does open other doors especially in the financial services sector. Look at compliance or claims handling - paralegal for an in house claims team for example.

Go for it in terms of getting the degree, but unless you're shit hot, able to work (and be at your desk) practically all hours you're awake it's not going to lead to a traditional legal job.

This is brutal but brilliant advice. Spot on.

I've been a barrister for 17 years.
This is excellent advice. I'm sorry.
And please DO NOT listen to the post below suggesting the bar as an alternative!!!! Perhaps marginally more open to mature starters but other than that it's Degusters post re solicitors x1000 for barristers.
I hope you find something you love but I'm afraid sacrificing the next 8 years of your childrens lives to get through a really tough degree to have a qualification at 58 and then work as a paralegal for 10 years until you retire is not the way.

I am a legal secretary. I have been doing it for nearly 20 years. My personal experience is that if you find a decent firm and get a job as a secretary (and do a good job of it there) will absolutely be ways of becoming a solicitor. There is more than one path to becoming a solicitor and law degree isn’t the only way. If you find a decent firm and can prove to them that you’re hard working and dedicated then you may well be able to negotiate doing a CILEX course and work your way up through your work which, if you’re savvy, won’t cost you anything. I work with lawyers who have taken this route and are now in senior positions. Ive been offered this multiple times over my career (though I have no intention of becoming a lawyer - I just know the opportunity is there if I want it). So, whilst I personally wouldn’t go the law degree route, finding a secretarial job in the field you’re interested in and working your way up that way is totally possible and you’re not too old! Good luck :)

Lawyer here. 5 years qualified and working at a tier 1 regional firm.

I couldn't agree more with @Deguster. They have perfectly outlined why it's simply not worth it anymore.

Honestly, don't do it. There are far easier ways to make good money. I wish I'd never become a lawyer and I'm looking at ways to have an encore career change as I can't do this for another 30 years.

I don't know a single lawyer who would say they would do it again if they knew them what they do now.

I am not a lawyer. But I have worked for lawyers' firms twice. I said never again. I was shocked at the way they talked to employees they managed. The first time I thought it was an aberration. The second time was for a partner who I actually knew a bit socially and seemed lovely. She was exactly the same.
Other companies do not talk to their employees in this way.