Snobbery regarding Doctorate degrees vs PhD

[Sishirunak]

Does anybody have any experience of this first hand? I'm currently applying for Doctor of Education degrees as I work in the field, and I think it will be more suitable for me than a traditional PhD. I'm not looking to pursue a research career.
I've heard on the grapevine that professional Doctorates are looked down upon by academics, and that they aren't considered at the same level as PhDs despite both being exactly the same status and making you a Doctor.
What I've read is that as the Doctorates have taught modules and perhaps a shorter thesis, people just don't believe it should be awarded at PhD level as it isn't 100% research.
This doesn't put me off applying for one and I am still going ahead with it.

Yes I’ve heard the same, but academia is full of snobbery, there will always be someone wanting to put down your achievement, go for it if it’s right for you.

Sounds like snobbery to me. People should do further study because it interests them or it furthers their career, not because they think it makes them better than everyone else. If it's the right course for you then go for it.

I've even read someone say 'A Doctorate degree isn't a PhD, it's a Masters degree.' wow..
It's definitely one of the reasons I don't want to work in academia!
Thank you, I hope it's definitely the right course for me

But they're not the same degree, or the same status.

An Ed.D. is typically awarded after some kind of clinical project, with little or no original research. A Ph.D. in education (even in the exact topics of the Ed.D.) would require dissertating and defending the dissertation.

One is a clinical degree with significantly reduced selectivity for programs, one is a research degree with high selectivity. They're not the same. I say this as someone who looked into doing either one and decided on neither (very happy with how my career turned out instead, though!).

Snobbery is always a shame, but these are two different qualifications; one is a practitioner's qualification, the other research.

I have a Doctorate in clinical psychology. I would agree that our thesis was less in depth than would be needed for a PhD and I don't feel that I finished it with the same confidence in research skills that someone with a PhD would likely have. On the other hand, people with PhDs wouldn't make very good clinical psychologists so... 🤷‍♀️

It's not just snobbery, they are not equal in terms of input.

I considered a PhD but seeing what those students in my department went through in terms of the volume of work/research and then the terrifying interview after submitting their thesis - looks like hell!

As far as I understand it an EdD is more studying, rather than research and they don't have to face the dreaded panel!

Don't blame you for preferring that route, OP!

@Sishirunak know academia is often a snob fest, but would agree @Nephthys21 and @dudsville, the PhD is geared towards academic research and the professional doctorate towards expert practice.

I am doing a taught doctorate, it has a research component - all my own original work, and I will have to defend all 40,000 words of it next year... anyone who says it's like a masters is talking through their arse. It is bloody hard work!!

I’m at the final stages of a professional doctorate.

Two years of taught modules which must be passed

two years to write a thesis of around 60k words

and yes there’s a viva

I’m finding the opposite, the academics are incredibly supportive (and although I do a bit of teaching I don’t and won’t work in academia full time) - no one out of academia gets a difference at all. I’ll be honest given it’s supposed to be a part time course and I plus write a 70k word phd thesis in 3 years full time it’s a y turned out to be a lot more work than the phd. And my supervisors are absolutely holding me to the same standards as phd students. It’s way above the requirements for a masters.

Sorry I could not I plus!

They're not the same. A taught Doctorate has taught elements, and a shorter thesis. They're great for people who want to pursue a professional qualification to the highest level, but the emphasis is not on an original contribution to knowledge (subsequently publishable as a scholarly book).

Horses for courses - if you want to become an academic / university lecturer, it might be better to look at aPhD.

I am doing a taught doctorate, it has a research component - all my own original work, and I will have to defend all 40,000 words of it next year... anyone who says it's like a masters is talking through their arse. It is bloody hard work!!

I agree - a taught or professional doctorate is way above a Masters. But my PhD thesis was 120,000 words, not 40,000 + course work (my Masters was 40,000 + course work). There's a big difference in writing 40k or 100k words in terms of the research and argument necessary.

Sorry my second post is in answer to @Gooseysgirl 's post:

I am doing a taught doctorate, it has a research component - all my own original work, and I will have to defend all 40,000 words of it next year... anyone who says it's like a masters is talking through their arse. It is bloody hard work!!

Well, they're wrong aren't they? PhDs and professional doctorates are both level 8 qualifications, masters are level 7.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NationalqualificationssframeworksinntheUnitedd_Kingdom

There is snobbery but Professional Doctorates are better in applied subjects like education, psychology, clinical areas.

You'll do a shorter thesis but still have a viva. Your work has to have novelty and be a contribution to new knowledge. If you we're going into research academia I'd probably advise doing a PhD but if this is CPD in a field you're working in a Professional Doctorate would be better.

@GoodThinkingMax @SarahProblem Thanks for your insights, I know someone who’s doing a Professional Doctorate and I didn’t fully understand the differences between the two qualifications.

So if someone wants to focus on teaching, rather than research, at a business school, for example, is a Professional Doctorate a good qualification to have? Or is the Ph. D. route still the best approach?

I don't really understand all this
My dc is doing a 4 year PhD in another country and rhe job title is doctoral candidate?

You will get snobbery everywhere. Even ppl with phds will have a hierarchy of what they consider “important” research within academia, ie a chemist or physics phd is “superior” to a psychology phd etc etc. it’s all bollocks. Just do what your passionate about and to hell with everyone else’s views and opinions!

It isn't snobbery. I've taught, supervised and examined both and they are different. No, EdDs and DBAs are not Masters level (not sure who told you that), they are docotorates and a lot of work. If you want to be an academic and do research I'd recommend a PhD because of the depth of study required. In your case you are fine with an EdD. Don't let the critics put you off.

Yes it's looked down on. A few lecturers in my department were undertaking doctorates and I notice this has now been stopped as a route and lecturers must undertake pHds now in the new policy.

Within Scotland an original contribution to knowledge is absolutely one of the SCQF level 12 indicators and the biggest difference between masters and doctoral study. If you’re studying a professional doctorate at a Scottish university it is absolutely a requirement for your thesis.

Thanks for your answers, I understand your points and can better see the difference between the two now. I think the snobbery was regarding people calling it a 'doctorate' , comparing it to a Masters, even though it's a level 8, saying 'anyone can get on it' and so on. However there will always be snobs everywhere indeed and I am not even surprised that there's snobbery regarding which PhDs are 'better' than others!

There is definitely a difference though - just as there would be a difference between an MRes and a MSc? Doesn’t mean the quality and standards drop but agree they have different purposes.

it was described to me as a PhD helps you become a professional researcher while a ProfDoc helps you become a researching professional. I’d argue unless you are hell bent on academia as a career route a ProfDoc is a better choice.

BTW regarding the 120k words being harder my own supervisors believe it’s much harder to produce work to the depth and quality needed in a smaller word count - it allows very little space for any indulgence. So you will find differing views everywhere on what’s hardest and what constitutes best quality.

Im dude everyone could agree either is bloody hard work mind you.

To be honest, I have a PhD and I would never call it a ‘doctorate’ - the PhD award, ‘doctor of philosophy’ relates to the level of thinking and in particular, independent thinking that goes into a PhD. I wouldn’t necessarily consider a different kind of doctorate to be lesser, but a different beast with a different purpose. I don’t think a taught doctorate could prepare you for an academic career as well, particularly a research based one. But it would be good prep for a professional career in that field.

It’s similar in the masters space tbh - a PGDip vs an MA and an MBA, all three are possible in the field of management/leadership/business, but they are not all equal and have different requirements. Sometimes a PGDip is enough, often the MBA is overkill but is a mark of quality.