AIBU to ask you to help me figure out whether I want another baby?

[SarahAndQuack]

I have a DD, 5, who is absolutely wonderful and the best thing ever to happen in my life. I love being her mum. I also have a history of fertility issues/pregnancy loss, and I'm 37.

Here's the thing. I always wanted to be pregnant and have a baby; when I met my DP she knew it might be harder for me, and she was older, so we agreed she'd try first. I will admit we really didn't think it all through enough. DP had a rotten pregnancy, we both suddenly found out how homophobic all the structures around pregnancy/childbirth are, and DP had a traumatic labour, after which DD was seriously ill for a bit and a bit fragile for a fair bit longer again. At the same time, we went from being reasonably financially comfortable to financially struggling a bit. Part of this was to do with circumstances beyond our control; part was to do with DP's financial history, which was a major bone of contention. We did a major location change and had other issues. On top of that DD was right at the far end of the spectrum for sleep. All in all it was a pretty hard, stressful few years. Our relationship got very seriously rocky; I thought I was going to leave several times.

One major issue was that, through all this, DP thought she was being self-sacrificing in offering to be the pregnant one - she wanted children but thought of pregnancy as an unpleasant but necessary means to an end. I thought I was being self-sacrificing in accepting she'd try first. We both resented each other, and it really didn't help that people kept assuming I would naturally be the maternal one who'd get pregnant, and she wouldn't. After DD was born DP really didn't want another baby for a long time; I felt cheated by this as it wasn't what we'd agreed. This all sounds very simple, but it took us years to figure out this was what was underlying all of our arguments. I have to admit that, now I understand where she was coming from and she understands me, we have resolved quite a lot of our relationship issues.

Still with me?

DP would now be supportive of me TTC. But I'm wavering. It's expensive, obviously. It could be a lot of stress and heartbreak for nothing. It may well disrupt the possibly quite fragile peace in our relationship. We could use the money for so many other things. I found the financial instability very scary; I am scared of getting into it again. I am scared of having another child who doesn't sleep (really, really, really doesn't sleep). I am also a bit scared of having a traumatic labour like DP, and DP is very scared of this (understandably).

OTOH, babies are lovely, and I loved DD's baby stage. I really enjoy toddlers. I have such gorgeous, idyllic memories of DD at all of those ages - and even though things were very hard in other ways, it was a wonderful time. I can't help feeling that it might be easier with a second baby, because we shouldn't be so badly off financially, unless something else unforeseen happens, and we'd know better what we'd be doing, and neither of us would be feeling we were sacrificing the thing we really wanted to be doing. But perhaps this is just wishful thinking?

If you've made it this far and still have energy to comment, thank you!

Financial issues need to be considered, but the biggest issue is the fragility of your relationship. I would not bring another child into it, I'm afraid.

That's perfectly fair, and helpful.

Is it definitely what you both want @SarahAndQuack ? It is a lot to go through if you are not 100% sure. The fertility treatment process and having our twins put a lot of strain on my (previously very happy) marriage. It is not an easy process to go through and sometimes as same-sex couples we don’t always get as much support as you say.

Sorry for the super delayed response - but couldn’t just leave the post having read it. I really hope things work out for the best for you both.

It's so kind of you to reply, @TheBatwoman, thank you. I am really nervous TBH. If someone could let me TTC without spending money (!) and guarantee I wouldn't miscarry, I'd be in there like a shot! But, of course, there's no certainty there.

I must admit I am also a bit nervous about what it would be like if I had a baby, in terms of how DP would bond with that baby. When DP was TTC I was very open with her that I wasn't sure how it would work out, and I was worried I might not find it easy to bond. Of course I hoped I would, but I didn't know. When DD was born (it was a very difficult labour) I felt awful, because for a few hours I was simply so worried about DP. Then DD, who had been fine, suddenly became very ill and it was very clear to me how much I loved her. And it's always been clear since then. But DP, of course, hasn't had that experience, and it compounds the inevitable 'argh, what if we don't love this baby as much as our amazing special first baby' feeling. But, I think these worries are probably pretty similar to what hetero couples go through, really? I'm not sure they are substantial.

I completely understand that feeling of nervousness around TTC @SarahAndQuack. TTC did not go smoothly for us either, cost us a fortune and I had a few losses before having our twins, so I really empathise with your concerns around that side. TTC is often not an easy journey, but it doesn’t sound like you’re going into this decision lightly. I’m also guessing you may well have some experience of the fertility treatment process from having your DD? Apologies if I’ve made a leap there, but helps to already have an idea of what you’re getting into I think. We were totally clueless and really quite naive when we started admittedly!

DW and I actually discussed her experiences of bonding with our babies recently. I think we were both also a little concerned about this throughout my pregnancy before they were born. She said that she felt a bond with them instantaneously though and it’s only grown since. She’s such a fantastic mum to DS and DD and they have such a special bond, which has been one of the more unexpected joys of having our kids. I love watching them play and laugh together. It’s just made me love her and our little family so much more.

I think you’re right that many couples go through these concerns around bonding, although I think it can be amplified for couples using donors. It sounds like you’re really mindful of this though and no doubt will be a supportive partner of you are already considering this. I was really mindful to try to include DW as much as possible at every stage of our TTC and pregnancy journey (despite the added difficulties with this due to COVID), which she recently confirmed that she really appreciated.

I’m no expert but you seem to be quite mindful of the potential issues and concerns for you both, which is a positive. If it is definitely what you both want, then you should probably consider going for it. You mentioned that you always wanted to have a baby and if DP is supportive of this, then it may be the right decision, especially if you think not trying could become a regret or lead to resentment. The timing is never perfect and it is so easy to find concerns with decisions this big. You mentioned last time parenting took a bit of a toll on your relationship, but you’ll be more aware of that in future, so no doubt you would also take the time for each other and your relationship. DW and I learnt this the hard way, as our relationship really suffered initially (it can be hard to find time to work on a marriage with two babies!)

Have you made a decision between you yet, or still weighing up options? If you don’t mind me asking of course.

Honestly I would say go for it.

Life always chucks tricky things at us. You got through an incredibly tough time before. You say yourself hoe much joy your child brought to you both despite the difficulties.

I think if you don’t at least try you will end up resentful of missing your chance to be pregnant and add to your family.

You're right about hetero couples also having to deal with the question of life changing or will they bond with the next child the same.

I guess with your age you should get started now if you're going to do it. Things to think about: how you would feel if it didn't go to plan, how you would feel if it caused new arguments, how you would feel with a baby and a 6 year old, and later on, a 5 year old and 11 year old and so on.

One real positive spin: the good place you are in and the joy of your DD might enhance to good and take sting out of the bad. Now you and DP will get the roles throughout pregnancy that you wanted, so hopefully you will both find that stage less stressful. You already have a DD so should things not go to plan, you know that you at least are mum to her (sorry I hope that is not insensitive and I do not at all wish to minimise second loss - it just seems to me that the difference between 'child / no child' is more stark and upsetting than that between more / less children, but this is not personal experience). Also, you might find the bonding as a family actually easier. Before, your DP already had a bond with DD and you were worried about how you might bond. But this time, all 4 of you will have unique relationships that will need bonding and attention.

Reading between the lines (please forgive me if I am way off) it sounds like you perhaps present as more traditionally female? I hate saying this, but you might experience way less homophobia as the more traditionally 'mum' looking parent. This makes the world awful, but perhaps your experience better than your DP's.

I think you run the risk of ultimately being resentful that you didn't get to be the biological mother. All the other worries are valid but can be overcome.

Thanks all! I so much appreciate the advice.

@TheBatwoman, I'm so sorry to hear of your losses and difficult times. Yes, I've had fertility treatment previously. As it happens DP got pregnant after one cycle of IUI, and we're both aware that we were unusually lucky there - but before and since I've had more problems, and would go into any subsequent treatment with my eyes open, I think.

I'm sorry to hear you had a rough patch in your relationship when your babies were born - but, I hope you're not offended if I also say, it's so helpful to know we're not alone! I keep feeling as if the only stories we hear, as same-sex parents or parents conceiving through fertility treatment, are stories of unmitigated positivity. Of course, I'd love to think that's the norm, but it makes you start to feel as if, if you had a bit of a struggle, it must mean you're not fit to be parents!

In answer to your question (and of course I don't mind you asking!): no, I don't think I have 100% decided yet. I've set the process in motion, but of course it's so long and cumbersome that this doesn't mean much. We've also had quite a lot of set backs in the past - eg., we tried to TTC and they discovered I had to have an operation on my ovary instead; we tried again and covid happened and they just lost us from their system. So it's hard to feel as if anything is very real. So far, we're waiting on tests for my AMH (it's usually fine) and my general health, and then - if all is well - we'll have to make a firm decision to do the more eye-wateringly expensive stuff.

Thank you, this is really making me feel I should be more hopeful! DD is such a delight and a joy, and you're absolutely right - I'd never wish not to have had her for any difficulties in the world, so probably my worries are a bit misplaced.

I think it's completely understandable to be scared of all those things, but that you might come to regret making a decision based on fear. I was also scared of trying for a second child after recurrent miscarriage trying for my first; it helped me to overcome that to tell myself that I'd put limits on how long I'd try and how many miscarriages I'd endure before I stopped trying and moved on. As it happened I didn't miscarry again, so I don't know if I really would have stuck to those limits in the event. But I was very scared of being drawn into a desperate place again, and aware that this time it would affect not just me and DH but also DS1, so I needed to tell myself that it wouldn't be 'at all costs' this time.

@DarkShade - I don't think we're worried about age gap issues. Obviously we've thought (probably too much!) about what might happen if it causes new arguments, or if it doesn't go to plan. I'm sure heterosexual couples do also think about these things, but naturally for anyone with experience of same-sex parenting and fertility treatment, they are the basics that you just can't not tackle! My worry is: given we've both thought about these issues a lot, both when DD was conceived and subsequently, how can we know this decision is really right? Perhaps we can't.

You're not being in the least insensitive saying it's different, given I have DD, from how it would have been if we had no children. I absolutely agree with that - though, no, I don't really think DP had a bond with DD before I did. DP really didn't enjoy pregnancy and doesn't feel she had a bond with DD then.

But after that, DP and I of course have different experiences. My experience is discovering that my DD is my world, and all my worries about not bonding with a baby who wasn't biologically mine, were proved wrong. My DP's experience is discovering that, though she adored DD, she'd had a horribly traumatic time and found it very hard to care for a newborn. So, basically, my experience has been really reassuring, and hers has been the exact opposite! It is hard to know how this might affect anything in the future.

To address your final point - yes, that's always the issue. I get read as female and DP is presumed at a glance to be male. It was a major issue when DD was born. I suspect, if I were to get pregnant, it'd all go a lot more smoothly for me.

YY, I do worry about this! And I feel guilty because I think DP (and society as a whole) will read me wanting to be the birth mum as evidence I don't love my DD as much as I might. This absolutely isn't the case, and I find it so deeply hurtful that it's in play - but I know it is.

Thank you so much for replying. I think you're absolutely right to say putting limits on it is a healthy option. I have a history of recurrent miscarriage and I am frightened. I think something I am struggling with is that, in the community of same-sex parents, obviously, most people beat the statistics - you're going to a fertility clinic, where they make their business out of treating people with established issues, but there's nothing medically wrong with you. It can make you feel superhuman. And that's how my DP felt. But I am frightened that, if I did get pregnant (and I don't manage that very well), then, like all of us I'd be sitting around terrified for four or five or nine months. I want to explain to DP that I don't want to TTC 'at all costs'. But, I also find it hard to get across to her that I have some quite natural fears, and those aren't indicative of a general reluctance to go through with the whole process. I don't know if that makes sense!

It is total bullshit if anyone is making you feel that your wish to be pregnant and give birth mean you love your DD less. Loads of hetero women feel like they want to have a certain type of pregnancy and birth second time round if their first one wasn't exactly as they wanted it, and no one would ever dream of accusing them of loving their first child less! Of course these two things are not the same, but it's an equally outrageous suggestion, is my point.

Pregnancy and birth are an experience. It sounds like for your DP they were not positive. But it's of course fine to want to experience it, as it is with any new experience.

It sounds like you have wonderful insight into your relationship and the challenges you've faced. If you feel like you and your partner are in a good place now, then absolutely go for it - and go for it soon, as fertility drops quickly around this age (also in a same sex relationship, 4 years into fertility treatment to try for my second biological child after a very easy run with my first 6 years ago!) I also totally get the no sleep thing fears. My DD didn't sleep more than 2 hour chunks until she was 2.5 years old. It was horrific. But I still desperately want one more and am not at the end of the road yet. Kindly, if you've faced difficulties before - plus all the added complications and expense of not being in a fertile, hetero relationship - the decision might end up being taken out of your hands. But in your position, I'd absolutely go for it! All the best to you!

I really appreciate you saying that, because so many people have made this assumption! I've even had the doctor at the clinic ask why I'm 'bothering' unless I don't feel happy with DD.

I think the fact DP had such a horrible experience actually plays into it - I can't help feeling as if, either I'd have an ok experience and that might be healing (DP thinks this), or, if I had a bad experience, at least she wouldn't feel so on her own.

Thank you, that's such a kind response. And yes, I'm aware about fertility dropping. I'm so sorry it's hit you hard. I hope you soon have some good news.

And YY, the sleep thing is hard. It's fairly normal for a child not to sleep in more than two hour chunks before three (I know, because I was going spare and wanted to know if we were doing something wrong). My DD didn't do that. She's five now, and thank goodness, she now sleeps - today she went down at 10, she'll be aware at 7, and thank god she will not usually wake up in the middle. But, until very recently, she'd quite happily wake every hour on the hour, and didn't want to sleep more than seven or so hours with breaks (so, down at midnight, up at 1, down, up at 2, etc. etc., then up for the day at seven). She didn't nap, either. It was particularly fun when she was three and suddenly decided to scream in horror for an hour or so in the middle of the night. It was really, really not easy, and I do very much get why DP feels frightened at the idea of another one. We do both know that, statistically, we are unlikely to have another child who really, really won't sleep. But it's scary because it was a horrible time.

Yes - those of us with a horrific sleeper for a first child are all 'owed' an angel who sleeps well next time round!!

Hi op. I would definitely try if I were you. All kids and pregnancies are different so I wouldn't worry too much. I coslept with my kids and only had short periods of little sleep when they were going through a growth spurt.

Good luck

I don’t think describing some relationship challenges she also says they have largely navigated means they either have a very fragile relationship now or can’t have another good 30 to 40 years together. Who hasn’t had rocky periods?

What would you regret the most op? I have 3 so like everyone else I am irretrievably biased, in my case to babies are worth it. Can you protect against the financial issues?

My worry is: given we've both thought about these issues a lot, both when DD was conceived and subsequently, how can we know this decision is really right? Perhaps we can't.

I think the answer is that there is sometimes not a right answer. Both paths have good and bad and we just choose.

I will say I had an atrocious sleeper in DD, and it was one of the reasons we have one. But I don't really like the baby stage so there wasn't any compensation! I do LOVE everything that comes after.

It sounds as though you do what another. So I'd say go for it.

Oh, goodness, that's the truth!

Perhaps I just need to believe more strongly that will happen.

It's very kind of you to say this. I do think we had some really rocky times, but I know we both have worked hard at the relationship, and we do love each other. It's always on my mind that we nearly split up when DD was a baby, but it's helpful to be reminded that everyone has rocky periods.

I honestly don't know what I'd regret most! It'd be easier if I did.

Thanks Mrs TP!

That's a very wise way to look at it, I agree.