Overly sensitive employees/apprentices

[OhGoodnessItsSoExhausting]

Ok, so I pride myself on being a strengths focussed supervisor. I always want to mentor and help my employees and apprentices as much as possible. But the last two apprentices (all apprentices in this role are graduates if that's relevant) have been soooooo sensitive and just plain.annoying!

I can't give any feedback because they 'know it already.' I can't say anything right because apparently I know nothing about transgender issues or decolonisation of the workplace and I need to hear them 'educate' me on it all and lend me books because they (20 years younger with zero experience in this role) know how to resolve ingrained, inherent systemic racism and prejudice and clearly if they were in my role they'd have solved all the problems in society which impact the role, already.

They are always 'curious about X...' and 'wondering about y...' instead of just speaking in normal language

They are driving me insane!!!

They can't manage their workload (even though I'm so worried about upsetting them I give them half what I've given to previous apprentices). Apparently it's important to be 'boundaried' and assertive with your needs. (Yes,.I know that, but I'm just asking you to do your job - you are paid more for these apprenticeships than many of the more senior staff in the organisation).

They are so bloody self absorbed and self riteous. I find them so patronising.

Is this entitlement, condescending attitude and use of fluffy language a generation thing? Or (please tell me), I've just had a bad run of two extremely annoying apprentices!!? (who I found out today are friends! So I guess they feed off each other discussing how amazing and riteous they are and how everyone else in the organisation is incompetent.)

Grrr..

I'm not sure it's just this generation.

Many years ago - late 80s/early 90s, we had the Youth Training Scheme. They weren't graduates, but it was designed to help young people into jobs.
Although I wasn't much older, I ended up supervising some of them. They were mostly hardworking and all went on to be employed by the company. Being an IT company, they were predictably nearly all young men.

However, we did have one or two arrogant know-it-alls just like this. They were a absolute pain to deal with, and had a good hefty dose of misogyny that coloured their dealings with me.

Be firm, don't take any nonsense about what they will and won't do, and don't allow any disrespect.
I ended up getting the manager involved with one insufferable little twit who accused me of clock-watching when he took 2.5 hours for lunchbreak. He went on to be an insufferable employee, too. Lord knows why they employed him when they knew what he was like but at least he wasn't my problem any more.

Ugh, I hate this sort of generational prejudice. Of course working with apprentices is exhausting - they are learning how to be a professional adult in the workplace, which is slightly different in every workplace, by the way. Try and remember how you were when younger. I was utterly hopeless about some things when I came to work as a paralegal in London in a law firm, a lot of office etiquette for starters. Managing my workload, certainly. I'm 46 and still struggle at times - I can procrastinate for England. I had office experience but in much more relaxed places up north. I'm sure my colleagues found me a pain in the arse at times.

That's not to say you let them off the hook for not doing work properly etc but criticiam should be constructive - and learning to accept criticism is difficult for anyone. I used to really take it to heart when I was younger - I remember crying in the office toilets a few times. Some older adults cannot take criticism or accept responsibility for mistakes at all and are ridiculously defensive. Stop bringing prior prejudice about Gen Z/millennials to work and treat people as individuals.

Sick to death of small groups of individuals being annoying asf and it’s suddenly it’s a “generational thing” ffs. It’s two people not millions. I get it, they’re irritating, but just off loading it due to age isn’t really right. The generation before that one fucked this new generation in all ways possible didn’t though? Tired of this hierarchy honestly

I think you need to do a few things.

1. Have an honest conversation with both of them about the workload.
   It needs to increase to get them employment ready. Others through the years have managed and this is part of the job so you will be increasing the workload from next week - gradually but it will increase to full load.
   Explain that you will teach them how to prioritise and how to manage their time and you will support them but the workload has to increase or you're doing them a disservice.

2. Part of that time management includes learning to cut the chat when time is short. There are places for discussion and debate but when you're against the clock it's head down and get it done. As for the long winded political conversations 'Well, we'll have to agree to disagree. Now, that report needs doing so off you go' - usually works in my experience. Refuse to engage until/unless it's appropriate. People will not always agree or be interested and they need to learn that.

3. As for the namby pamby way of disagreeing? Do what I do with my 15 year old. If he says 'I wonder if...' I say 'do you mean you disagree? If so, just say so. You are allowed to disagree or put forward an idea if you think it's better. People who think they're right won't pick up on 'I wonder if...' They'll just carry on. If you disagree, politely say you disagree or have a better idea'.

He speaks up now.

I don't always agree with him and we'll argue it out, but he says it plain but polite - no namby pamby language.

And did I read one of your posts correctly?
These people are 26 years old? Seriously?

I was a junior manager in charge of a team of six at 26 years old.
I left school at 16 and went straight to work, getting promoted to that role finally.

I'm amazed that 26 year olds are so lacking in workplace maturity. Most graduates I know have held down holiday jobs or evening/weekend jobs just to pay the bills. Many of my DS's friends have started getting Saturday jobs and they're 15-16 years old. You soon learn when you're working with older people in a pub or shop who don't stand laziness. Surely they've had the rough edges knocked off by now? I presume it's just bad luck as you have said you've had others who knuckled down.

We have 6th formers getting work experience with us (I work in a school). We also use some of our year 9 and 10 students to help us after school as part of the volunteering part of Duke of Edinburgh. Both groups seem to have a willingness to learn and work hard. All bar one 6th former who we had to move as she spent more time texting her mum than getting on with the work - which she found boring (guess what, some parts of a job are dear). The vast majority will put ideas forward and will listen to feedback if something has been tried - it's a pleasure discussing with them how their ideas could be tweaked.

So there's hope yet! I just think you've got a bad fit and they'd be better off somewhere else. But 26 years old...wow.

I’ve said YABU because this fluffy language thing is older generations too. Although the rest YANBU.

I would give my left leg for a black and white, straight to the pointer answer/response/feedback.
i am sick of things being fluffed, and my management beating around the bush. JUST FUCKING TELL ME YES OR FUCKING NO.

(can you tell I needed to get that off my chest!)

From the way you've described the role- nationally funded, uni links etc I wonder if they are trainee psychologists? It blows my mind that they start on band 6 when a fully qualified nurse starts on band 5 and I know the current cohort locally are doing a lot less clinically than we were used to them doing even a few years ago.

I'm a millenial medical consultant and talking to my older gen x colleagues, they find that med students now are really different to med students when they were my age (I.e people my age now). I recognise the issues you describe in our cohort of students.
They have had a shitty introduction to the world of independent study and work though, and I do retain some hope that as they spend more time back in the "real" world, things will start to normalise

I have the same issue with my 22 year old graduate.

Every sentence starts with 'I feel like' as if what she feels is the most important issue in any conversation.

If you say anything at all her response is a rising inflection 'literally?'

She sometimes speaks in a weird American voice and I just say 'stop it, that's how my 11 year old speaks'

Last week she took a day off to phone the doctor.

I meet with her about her performance and she cries about her boyfriend and her anxiety issues.

Double FML.

You’re right, he’s in software engineering and is having to work under a lot of product owners who don’t understand the “back end”. Sounds like it probably means more to you as it baffles me. He might be right as you say but I want to keep his ego in check haha

Last week she took a day off to phone the doctor

well you kind of have to, don't you? Ages waiting, then you have to wait for a call back and then you might get a face to face. Blame the system for that, not the person involved. Lots of people complain on here about not being able to get hold of a doctor because of work - taking a day off might be the only option!

Crying about a boyfriend in the workplace is deemed unprofessional, yet it's fine for older people to cry over their pets. I do think there's a bit of undue generational prejudice here.

Agree, they sound infuriating but I've voted YABU for 'They are always 'curious about X...' and 'wondering about y...' instead of just speaking in normal language'. Modes of speech evolve over time, and other people aren't obliged to speak in a way you personally consider 'normal'.

I have the same issue with a graduate I am supposed to be mentoring! I literally can't advise her about anything as she knows it all. At the end of the year she is supposed to be submitting a portfolio showing progression in the role, all he submissions from the first few months give her nowhere to progress to, she has assessed herself as fully competent!

I wish I didn't think it was a generational thing, because I think we have left a very difficult world for the younger ones to inherit, so guilt makes me want to defend them.
That being said... the entitlement to wellbeing (as defined by individuals rather than necessarily reasonable), reduced workloads, phased tasks, validated offence, adjusted expectations - I could go on - that I see in the students I am responsible for has increased palpably over the past 10 years. The teachers are struggling to plan lessons because they have to navigate a minefield of new expectations, and the parents are so quick to keyboard-battle any perceived discrimination, mis-gendering, the teacher not adjusting the task to cater for X's needs (and there are suddenly many Xs in every single class)... I feel so sorry for them. The parents have become this behemoth of power, laying down expectations for individualised treatment of their child, and, in the worst cases, defending their child's appallingly brattish, bullying behaviour because said child has needs which apparently trump all the other students' needs to have a peaceful classroom experience, through with learning can be the priority.
These children, drunk on their own individual rights, then go into the workplace, and that's what you're experiencing, I guess.

To be fair, I think the changing attitudes towards decent work life balance, diverse workplaces, etc, are coming from the younger staff. Which is good, they are driving positive change. There’s nothing wrong with that.

I don't see anything wrong wth saying "I wonder if", or "I'm curious about..."

I hope I'm not so lumpen middle age to have lost my sense of curiosity or wonder.

Basically the complaints here seem to be mostly "Why aren't these people exactly like me?"

You don't have to take a day off to phone the doctor, for the love of god. You put the phone on speakerphone if you need to use your hands, and you wait as you move up the queue. It's no different to having a radio on in the background. When you get to "You are number - pause - one - pause - in the queue" you fuck off to somewhere a bit more private and make the appointment.
It's not rocket science, and it terrifies me that anyone responsible for being a part of civilisation would think that the only way this can be accomplished is by excusing yourself from work for the day. Get a fucking grip.

I don’t know. I’m a slap-bang-in-the-middle Millennial (born 1990) and I’m so nihilistic and resigned to misery, I quite enjoy seeing Gen Z and early Millennials setting boundaries.

To be fair, the two you have do sound a bit wanky but I learned some really unhealthy work habits from older people when I got my first full-time job at 17. Seeing younger people on TikTok ‘knowing their worth’ (I know, I know 🤢) is quite inspiring and is definitely influencing how I’m looking for new roles now. ‘I was the office whipping boy and I survived, we all went through it!’ doesn’t cut it anymore.

HOWEVER, they do need to get on with their job and learn to manage a workload. They’ll never hack it otherwise. I’m not suggesting anyone babies employees but since widespread WFH during the pandemic, it has been shown that toxic presenteeism and performative overtime isn’t necessary for success, it’s just shit management.

The Universities are nurturing this behaviour.

My friend is teaching a 3rd year student who demanded, and got, a 3 week extension on an assignment because they were so distressed and didn’t feel safe because their friend was misgendered by another member of staff, having changed gender for the second time during the course.

Guess who had to mark the delayed assignment 3 weeks after her work was due to have finished? With no extra pay?

So?
These are all valid criticism, and can be dealt with by writing objectives, following HR policy etc.
you’re not at the mercy of said graduate here.

Professional tone, lack of performance just document everything.

You’re the manager your job is to manage…

DH and I up in the wee hours fretting about SIL and her attitude. She has just graduated and is looking for work. Point blank refused to do anything extra during her degree, constant extensions due to anxiety and pressure.Told me that graduates don't read now and I don't know what I am talking about. I graduated ten years ago from the same degree. Didn't sort out internships, asked us for help, we pulled in favors. She didn't call people and described our industries as 'cringe'. She has now asked if I can get her work experience with one of my friends who has a glamourous job, not cringe so she is willing to do it. But I just can't alienate my friend as I know it will be crisis after crisis with SIL and her wanting to tell everyone how oppressive and old they are. Oh and she wants a starting salary of 30K.
Latest hire on my team is a gen z. She has taken a months worth of days sick since she started last summer and is on a capability plan. She keeps applying for senior roles in the company and I have had to have stern words about her trying to manage me and go above my head. She is oblivious to any of this being an issue and talks about protecting her mental health all the time. But I can't see how you can be that burnt out taking a day off every two weeks. Other friends reporting the same with the latest batch of grads entering their teams.

I am trying not to think of it as a generational thing, maybe a hangover from Covid lockdowns. But I can't remeber people being this flakey and entitled five years ago.

Also to add I have seen grads like this, but a lot get away with it because their managers don’t do anything about it…

They have previously always added to the work place and been an additional, helpful pair of hands

Okay, so if nothing major has changed at your end, it sounds as if it really is just these two - in which case I agree with PPs about shutting down the nonsense and giving them a normal workload to do.
Also feeding back to the Uni could be worthwhile, though if they're one of those who encourage feelz and psychobabble they'll probably congratulate themselves on what they've produced and blame you

Luckily you've said the places are very much in demand, so they shouldn't be hard to replace

A lot of apprentices/grads coming through now only know work through the lens of covid.

AKA. Work from home, mental health seminars, etc.

All good and well, but not the world is reverting to normal its time to get stuck back into work and most of them don't want to / can't handle it

@JuniorPenny

www.google.co.uk/search?q=focused+or+focussed&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari

I do wonder whether this thread is connected in anyway to the thread yesterday where the little boy was being hugged every time he threw a tantrum about not getting his way. Does one lead to the other?

If you want to do them a favour be blunt with them. Compare them to others and let them know they won't get far in a "real" job if they don't put more effort in. Shut down all political discussion.
Feed back to the uni what you have said here because if they are encouraging this bollocks they are not doing their students any favours.