Overly sensitive employees/apprentices

[OhGoodnessItsSoExhausting]

Ok, so I pride myself on being a strengths focussed supervisor. I always want to mentor and help my employees and apprentices as much as possible. But the last two apprentices (all apprentices in this role are graduates if that's relevant) have been soooooo sensitive and just plain.annoying!

I can't give any feedback because they 'know it already.' I can't say anything right because apparently I know nothing about transgender issues or decolonisation of the workplace and I need to hear them 'educate' me on it all and lend me books because they (20 years younger with zero experience in this role) know how to resolve ingrained, inherent systemic racism and prejudice and clearly if they were in my role they'd have solved all the problems in society which impact the role, already.

They are always 'curious about X...' and 'wondering about y...' instead of just speaking in normal language

They are driving me insane!!!

They can't manage their workload (even though I'm so worried about upsetting them I give them half what I've given to previous apprentices). Apparently it's important to be 'boundaried' and assertive with your needs. (Yes,.I know that, but I'm just asking you to do your job - you are paid more for these apprenticeships than many of the more senior staff in the organisation).

They are so bloody self absorbed and self riteous. I find them so patronising.

Is this entitlement, condescending attitude and use of fluffy language a generation thing? Or (please tell me), I've just had a bad run of two extremely annoying apprentices!!? (who I found out today are friends! So I guess they feed off each other discussing how amazing and riteous they are and how everyone else in the organisation is incompetent.)

Grrr..

It's because they have all been brainwashed by wokeism.

I agree @Rosehugger .

My DS isn't quite old enough to be bothered to get a Saturday job (15) and it's not as easy as it was for me when I was 14 and just called around all the big shops until I got a job. But his friends are gradually turning 16, getting part time work and he's beginning to show some interest.

Meanwhile he and some classmates have just completed the Duke of Edinburgh award which includes 6 - 12 months volunteering. Some tried to get volunteer work in charity shops - can't until they're 16 years old. But, undeterred, they called around and all managed to secure places somewhere. The range of places taking on volunteer teenagers is remarkable. Churches, catteries, kennels, helping with swimming and other sports groups, working in a school library, litter picking once a week with a clean up group. All supervised of course.

The point is all of them found their own volunteer work by thinking it through and making the approach. That's a useful skill in itself. So they are mucking out cats and dogs, folding order of service sheets for the church, setting equipment up for sports, keeping their local park clean. And all of them have thoroughly enjoyed it, most are staying on in their roles now the 6-12 months of Duke of Edinburgh award bit is up. And they're appreciated.

That's valuable to the community and great on their CV. Yes, it's unpaid work but if they can't earn yet anyway what's the difference? It shows initiative and hard work.

DS and his friend, who volunteer together, love their job. They work with an older set of women volunteers (the youngest is 70) and get thoroughly spoiled with cake every week! They've learned a lot about the world just by listening to the chat going on and they value the experience these women have. Which, I think, makes them better people, more willing to listen.

Actually thinking about it, the trades apprentices we have are great, much more on the ball than the office-based graduate trainees.

I think it's a young person thing.
I refused to make the tea or fetch snacks lunches etc. I also refused to work any other time than my 8-5. I also refused to work weekends and attend work events.
Work-life-balance.

Bit of a twat all really.😂

I honestly would not have dared to do that as a young worker.

Me neither!

DS16 managed to get his first day of paid work yesterday, sorting out labelling for a pal in a warehouse.

He came back wanting to know if we got paid lunch breaks- seemed very upset when we said no - and commented on how boring it was.

I think he needs a bit more experience .

Even as a manager I condoned the use of apprentices doing what I classed as dog's body tasks.
Seniority has to be used in a manner that is not condensending.

None of those are a young persons job unless you specifically signed up for them. I used to have a manager who decided it was my job as the apprentice. I told them I was already doing the same job as everyone else for shit all money so I wouldn't be doing the dogsbody work too.

I got a pay rise so my pay was in line with the others. Then we started tea rounds.

I used to insist all juniors learned how to set up a meeting room, so that when the meeting started there were enough chairs, the required tech was ready to go, there were refreshments etc. And afterwards to put it back how it was, replenish stores that had been used, switch off tech and take the used cups/glasses back to where they belong (and in the dishwasher). Once one told me "we have cleaners for that" but the MD heard and made sure he was on the rota to make sure the cleaners had everything they needed to do their jobs for the entirety he worked with us.

The point is everyone should start at the bottom and know how to do all the admin jobs, because they are the least valuable to the company and they can be spared. Having said that: it shouldn't always be the same one(s) doing it. Or only the women making the coffee etc.

It is never a good idea to go into a new job and start telling people how to do it better or that you know more (even as a senior manager). The first few weeks are to watch and learn. But it's never a good idea to dismiss their ideas out of hand. For the good ones we tend to ask them to make a study and show us what the advantages / savings would be of their way over the existing process. It's not a punishment, but a learning process (sometimes we do adopt at least some of the ideas)

do you mean 440 per week, not per month? because I was on 30k until recently and that's roughly what I got post deductions, and putting 30k in the take home calculator gives a monthly net after NI, tax, and SL of £1,967.34, which might not go hugely far but is certainly enough to rent a single room, even in London!

You are saying he could not manage on £200 a week as a single person after paying rent???

But you can't do tea rounds for setting up meetings or for visitors, someone has to do it. And in my place the young adults on placement think it is beneath them and leave it to older women like me who are going to be on way less than them throughout their working life.
And making tea and setting up a meeting room is not a shit job. If you think that you have had a very easy work life.

I absolutely disagree it's not the young person's job. Yes it is - they are there to learn and one thing they have to learn is how a meeting room should be set up.

And often it is women doing this task - i have spent my working life either roping in men at my level to help me set up or dodging it when I've felt It's someone else's turn. See also: collecting for birthdays & retirement, making the coffee, un/loading the dishwasher and taking minutes. I also have never not lugged reams of paper upstairs, moved dozens of chairs when required etc etc.

Alongside these tasks apprentices and trainees and people in their first job should be trained about the world of work and the organisation they work for in particular. But they aren't too good to set up meetings. Been there, done that. Am done with it.

*None of those are a young persons job unless you specifically signed up for them. I used to have a manager who decided it was my job as the apprentice. I told them I was already doing the same job as everyone else for shit all money so I wouldn't be doing the dogsbody work too.

I got a pay rise so my pay was in line with the others. Then we started tea rounds.*

I'm a Deputy Director in the NHS. For those who understand I'm an 8d.

Yesterday we had a team meeting. I was at the office first. I was in the meeting room before others. I set up the room for the meeting.

I don't expect my junior staff or admin to do all the grunt work, but I do expect them to do their share. What I've found in the last few years is that the graduate trainees aren't willing to do that and that they think they know more about our organisation than the band 3 administrator we have had since 2010 through many re organisations.

I wonder how many male directors on an 8d set up their own meeting rooms.

The 3 I work with definitely do.

I spent a lot of time working with female 8d's who wouldn't speak to anyone below an 8a to learn that banding does not a decent person make.

The point I was making however, is that people coming in now on a management banding often start work with the attitude that they are too good to make the coffee. I'm also a graduate - I have a masters and I'm Oxbridge educated which was a bloody eye opener for the daughter of a farm labourer and shop assistant. Yet when I joined the NHS - despite my degree, my previous experience, my intelligence i was learning a new job in a new organisation and so learned from the people already in the organisation of all levels. Ok, I was nearly 30 so that might have made a difference, but the bottom line is....the band 3 admin who has been in the job for a decade knows a hell of a lot more about the graduate job than the graduate. So some respect is necessary.

I feel quite heartened by thesurrealist's post. My boss will do that sort of thing too. It gives her a lot of credibility and she uses it to find out what's happening 'on the ground'.

Work skills are incredibly important. A half hour spent helping someone who is overloaded will almost always make them want to help you when you are in the same position. I always thought the police had more credibility when every recruit was expected to have experience of being on the beat. A lot of theory about leadership never seems to take account of the importance of informal learning and peer support.

That's moving away from the OP's original post but I think it's very telling that people with experience of work based apprenticeships tend to be more positive.

OP they're taking the mick. I think you're trying to be nice and accommodating to them - maybe in the hope it'll help them knuckle down.

They are emotionally manipulating you though. This is a major part of this type of person's tactics (often not consciously, but for productivity that doesn't matter).

You're not doing them or your profession's future and favours by getting swept up by it. If these two are unable to work in this sector better they find out now than after they've messed up a few workplaces and worse, end up managing others.

Whatever the process is for managing their workload and weak areas or giving them warnings - whatever - then follow the procedure. These two currently are not able to manage their work! They shouldn't be "facilitated" to "complete" a placement when very likely other students are actually doing the work required of them.

You're not ruining their lives by stopping to enable them. Including kicking them off the placement if they don't make a rapid change to their work ethic and office behaviour.

The uni needs to know that their level of work is half what their peers before them did and you're not willing to continue this way.

Why do we pander to this sort of behaviours and complain when someone behaves like that. Either it's unacceptable or it's not. If it is, then address it, but follow any policies to the T because this sort of person (any generation) can suddenly find the time and energy to deep dive company policies and put in a complaint about you not dotting an "i" when they feel "unfairly treated".

I'm a millennial (31) and we have had two gen Zers start at our place this year - a 24 year old man and a 16 year old girl (summer job). The 24 year old is great - hard working, easy to get along with, listens to your opinions and can put forward his own ideas in a non condescending way. I don't know the 16 year old too well but so far she has just gotten on with the job.

I was 18 when I first started working here (small family run office) and I was terrified. I wouldn't have dreamed of speaking to anyone like that. I think there are a lot of twatty gen Zers but tbh there are plenty of twats from all generations. I think gen Zs faults have just been magnified/encouraged by social media because now they have an easily accessible platform to to shriek from and to create an echo chamber environment in.

I agree Maisa, I wouldn't have dreamed of being so patronising or arsey as an 18 yr old.

We don't have many young ppl where I work but the ones we have had have been great. Speaking to friends that do take on a lot of young grads though, he says many are lazy, unwilling to do their jobs or be pushed as grads should be, and have a lot of sick leave.

I do think that the perception is that managers aren't allowed to challenge these behaviours, so they continue.

Years ago we had a placement student who took a sickie on a Monday after a big weekend at a festival. Her v no nonsense manager told her to take the day out of her annual leave.

Are managers scared to call out bs like that now?

I would not expect them to. I would expect them to do this when they come in as starters on a lower grade or training programme.

@Springduckling Do you know why managers aren't allowed to call out bad behaviour?

Wow!
Collections ,coffee… what a load of rubbish.
My first team was like this. There were constant collections, they made graduates organise ‘team building’ activities but it didn’t make anybody more inclined to give me any actual work beyond setting up meetings. I wasn’t averse to doing it, but it was a useful cover for the fact that nobody gave a shit about me or my career.

Thankfully I switched to a better team after 6 months. No coffee. No collections. From anybody, for anybody. Such bliss!