Anybody done a PhD?

[Irmagerd1]

I'm contemplating it, I'd like to work at university level but I know that the work is scarcer these days. I'd be happy to do it just for the enjoyment of learning and researching.
My father has a PhD and works in academia, and I suppose I previously never considered myself as capable but now I'm thinking that I should at least try.
I have a thesis topic I'd like to work on, in humanities, and I think it's a topic that generates a lot of discussion, has plenty of evidence to work with and it's something I'm genuinely passionate about.
However I don't have a Masters, I have a PGCE. I also have a 2.2 degree from a RG university. I'm 31 now.
I haven't chosen my university yet but I'm fully aware I'd never make it into Oxbridge or anything more competitive/prestigious, nor do I want to really.
I don't want this to be taken the wrong way but I'm wondering if I'd stand a better chance of being accepted at a much lower ranking university. I honestly don't mind where I do it as long as it can be local/distance learning.
I know I'll most likely have to be self funded too, and I'm intending to do the PhD part time alongside working.
Just interested to hear from other people doing them or contemplating it.
Maybe this is just a pipe dream and I'm completely deluded for thinking I'd even get a place.

I’m an currently ex teacher ( I might yet return) about to complete a funded PhD in the humanities.

What has already been said is very accurate - it is all but impossible to get a permanent job, strikes are happening because of job precarity.

I would strongly not recommend getting into debt to do one but look at funded opportunities although with a 2.2 they might not be available to you.

They are a long hard slog, significantly harder than the MA I did whilst working full time as SLT. Although I did have DC during it.

@bathsh3ba in the humanities? Research-only posts are pretty rare.

OP, I wouldn’t advise anyone to go into academia right now. The PP who said the job market is dire isn’t exaggerating. Even for temporary teaching-only posts (eg maternity cover) we get an enormous number of applicants, many of which are very over-qualified (lots of HE teaching experience, publications, etc). This is because there are so few jobs out there that people leave with a PhD and spend years and years on temp, essentially zero-hours teaching contracts, doing their research in their own ‘spare’ time to build up their CVS. Look up the UCU (union) website to get a sense of the issues going on right now. Lots of departments under threat too (several English ones for eg Roehampton, Portsmouth) and many institutions embattled (QMUL, Goldsmiths).

I’ll only take on PhD students who have a clear path to employment after finishing (because of existing skills or that they’re working in an in-demand niche area, etc).

If you’re willing to say what subject and area you’re interested in we can probably advise further.

I know a lot of people educated to PhD level, most in science and engineering though some in social sciences. They are all 45 plus and most are academics with a few who work in the city.

I have also met many academics on rolling contracts or post docs who have to move from city to city and even country to country as each contract ends.

At both mine and DH workplaces they offered redundancies last year, I worked at a RG University. Quite a few of our friends took those deals. I retired early due to ill health, I remember far better times. I wasn’t an academic though, I was a librarian.

DH PhD was fully funded by a global food corporation, he got a permanent lectureship when he was 30. Publishing in the most prestigious journal in his field probably got him that post.

I think that you have a topic you are passionate about is essential. I was interested in my topic, rather than passionate about it :) So at times it was a difficult slog, and struggled with motivation at times, but delighted I stuck with it. As well as the college, you need to consider potential supervisors or research groups you'd be part of. In the tech area, they're usually open to have a quick chat/meeting to discus potential synergy, expectations, etc. This supervisor match is critical.

As you probably know it's really difficult to find a role in academia, and conditions/benefits are just nothing like 20+ years ago. Thankfully I did not go down that route. A few of the folks doing PhD in the same cohort as me did eventually find positions, and are very happy. However, while I miss the research element and the college atmosphere, working in industry in my area means I've done much better financially (but also had to relocate several times due to companies closing, etc.)

I did one in the humanities, full time and funded. A while back.

Do you have a clear idea of your chosen topic? I still remember well my intake interview where they basically wanted to know what my final argument would be, which I thought was a bit unfair as I hadn’t done the research yet! But I am aware that even in humanities things have changed a bit and it might be possible to get accepted onto a predetermined research programme. But still, what is it you want to argue?

Secondly, are you absolutely passionate about your topic? As others have said, a humanities phd is a long, lonely slog and if you’re not obsessed with your topic you’ll probably drop out.

Thirdly, getting the right supervisor is absolutely key.

Fourth, In your position I might try and do a Master’s first, either taught or possibly an MRes or something with a bit of research training and experience in it. And if you don’t, ask about what support and training you will get in research methodology etc at the start of your research: when I did my doctorate we were basically thrown in to writing 80K words with no support on how you might do this (beyond the individual supervisions, of course). But I think that’s thankfully rare these days.

Finally, I agree with those who say don’t bank on getting a career out of it. It’s very very difficult to get an academic job these days and most of those I know who did succeed in getting one (I didn’t) are unhappy. I think there was some research at one point which showed that humanities phds actually lowered earning power across a work life because it took years out of the careers of bright people, usually at the beginning, so they were behind their contemporaries on the career ladder. As I said, I didn’t break in to academia as I had at one point hoped but I have had two careers since which I have very much enjoyed and continue to do so, and I draw on the skills and tenacity I learned from my phd all the time, and it was a topic I loved and I don’t regret it at all. But there’s no way I could do it all again now I’m a bit older, either financially or in terms of the concentration required. But I know others do, so good luck if it’s what you really want.

I do not know about humanities but in sciences, if you aren't able to get funding I would seriously question if it's worth self funding. There's a reasonable amount of funding in sciences so good candidates do get a student ship with stipend - exh is a PhD supervisor and his private pay U.K. students (he doesn't get to choose them the department say yes because they are money to them) have been universally awful and as for the overseas students, many don't even finish because they don't have sufficient language skills to write in English despite officially making the grade (they need a level 6 English proficiency certificate).

Ps most universities require a 2:1 (I have a 2:2 as well, so annoying, couldn't get on the masters programme i want to do)

If the process of studying is something you’re passionate about for its own sake, it may be worth it. You’ll need a thick skin and to be prepared for it to take years out of your life, possibly for no reward.

My own experience has not been great. I did UG, MA, funded PhD in humanities, thought I had done everything right. I got publications in prestigious journals and spoke at international conferences, awarded multiple funding pots on top of my funded PhD, got a fairly sought after postdoc contract, book contract, teaching experience, AFHEA… and then could not find another contract. At all.

I had a nervous breakdown and then ended up taking a c. £10,000 pa pay cut as no one was interested in a humanities PhD, but wrote me off as overqualified for lots of jobs outside academia.

I’m now several years behind people who graduated from UG at the same time as me and I feel like an utter failure. My book finally being published last month felt like a kick in the teeth rather than a success.

I’m in my mid-30s and pregnant. We’ve had to go for it despite the financial strain as we needed IVF and didn’t have the time to wait around. I wish I’d used the time to build a better career instead of getting so far and having to start again. I often feel I’ve let everyone down and wasted years of my life. My passion for research has been absolutely crushed out of me.

This is just my experience and feelings (and I am 7 months pregnant, roasting hot and hormonal!) but I strongly suggest a back up plan and going in with your eyes wide open. A really strong support network, good supervisor and being willing to go several extra miles to make yourself stand out are essential.

I'm in my third year of a funded humanities PhD and my advice would be to think long and hard about what you want from it. I worked in professional services in a university for a decade before I started and I was sure I wanted to be an academic. After two years of PhD research, teaching undergrad and Masters students part-time, working toward the publication rat race and doing smaller research projects on the side, I've realised that academia is absolutely not for me. In fact, I've realised I don't need a PhD at all and I'm only going to complete it because I've come this far.

Also, I would also fight hard for funding because, in my experience, self-funded PhDs aren't as highly regarded in a field like humanities because there are just so many candidates vying for the same few jobs. None of the self-funded PhDs I know have managed to get jobs in their field.

I'm an academic, I wouldnt take anyone on for a PhD with a 2:2 and merit background because it is evidence over time that you are not writing to the required standard and you will likely struggle with it, and it won't be a good experience for you or the supervisor.

I have a PhD. It was funded. I don't know anyone who self funded or took loans. Please don't get I to debt for a PhD. It really isn't worth it. I got mine at an RG uni (where I now work). As pp have said, it will be much harder with a 2.2. I would recommend applying for a 1+3 scheme funded where you do one year MA and go straight into your PhD. However I am not sure they accept 2.2s.

Not meaning to sounds snobby and harsh but a PhD is a long slog without great employment prospects depending on field. If you still really want to do it I suggest doing an MA, write your dissertation on a similar topic on what you want to do your PhD in. See if you can get something published and really work to get a distinction. You may then be in a better position to get funding for your PhD. Good luck.

I have a PhD. It was fully funded by the AHRC. And it was an absolute waste of time. I have a 1st class UG degree and a masters with distinction (both from RG universities). I have an unblemished academic record, an enviable funding track record, and recommendations written by the best thinkers in my field of research...and yet I am completely and utterly unemployable. I now do what is effectively a school leavers' job and sadly I'm quite grateful for it. I could have saved myself the time, money and mental breakdown and just gone straight from school to start my 'career'. I often joke I could remove those 4 years doing my PhD from my CV and pretend I spent that time at Her Majesty's Service and I'd probably be more employable (certainly no less). Have you seen the news lately? Student numbers are down and it's arts/humanities subject which are going to be slowly eroded from the university prospectuses. Sounds like a few others on this thread have had a similar experience to me. Sorry to be a voice of doom but please think very carefully about this

@Flockameanie yes, in social sciences. Fixed term of course but research only.

I have a PhD. I got it over twenty years ago and I work in academia, but more on the peripheries by choice.

It really did wonders for my self esteem and it increased my general employment prospects. However, it was tough going and I think you do have to love your subject to get through the tough parts.

I'm in the midst of doing my EdD. Like you I'm a teacher. However, I now work in a sixth form college, and feel that this is a perfect compromise. There are several people on my course who are working at a few different unis (ex poly / teacher training college type unis) and they have removed any delusion or desire for me to work in HE. I'm researching a really under researched topic, in education and am loving it. But I'm most definitely Not doing it to further my career (although I would quite fancy writing a book at the end, and I think I could earn the money back at the end going to other schools and doing CPD training in this area). Could this compromise work for you?

@bathsh3ba social sciences and humanities aren’t the same thing!

Agreed. And I say this as someone who did a humanities DPhil (Oxford) on a major scholarship and have held two longterm permanent academic posts before quitting the field. It’s a brutal job market and even my best former doctoral students don’t have a hope of a job. Many gave also quit after deciding that moving around for maternity leave and sabbatical covers wasn’t worth it.

Surely you mean 'Did anyone do a PhD?'

No i meant 'has anybody done a PhD'
Thanks for all the replies, I'm having second thoughts really and considering an MA in Education instead.

That sounds like a good change of plan, OP. My PhD was self-funded. It was, by far, the hardest thing I have ever done in my life, not so much academically but emotionally. It is a test of perseverance at least as much as anything else. You do need to be passionate about your topic but, in my opinion, you also need to be absolutely certain that it is the right thing for you to do, for its own sake. And, fwiw, I could not recommend a career in academia to anyone at the moment. If you think teachers are overworked and underpaid, imagine that, but on a zero hours contract, and you’ll have something of the life of an early years lecturer.

Surely you mean 'Did anyone do a PhD?'

Eh..?

Good plan, OP.

Have you looked at MRes courses (Master by research) that might be a good way to get a research student experience without the commitment of a PhD?
Plus, if you find you love it, it gives you some time to network at your uni/in your field and potentially sniff out funding options for the PhD (there’s also EdD - professional doctorates in education, which give you a doctoral level qualification but with more focus on professionally-oriented research)

I’m almost 4 years post PhD (social sciences but with a very artsy focus) I was funded and I don’t regret it, but I would absolutely echo what everyone else has said on here about employment options in academia - it really is brutal out here! I’m cobbling together casual teaching contracts with trying to write/publish in my own time - it’s not sustainable.

What about looking at an MRes?

I did a PhD, about to do a second one...

With a 2.2 and merit it's unlikely that you'd be selected over other candidates for a funded PhD. I dont think they're worth it if you get yourself into debt by self-funding. I did a PhD but only after getting a 2.1 in my undergrad with lots of work experience and was given a scholarship to study a masters which I got a distinction in. To be honest, unless you're 100% sure you want to work in research, or it leads you to a really specific job role that you know you want to do, I dont think there's a huge amount of benefit to them unless you just really want to do it for fun. I worked in research for a while and felt myself gradually burn out and resent it from being underpaid and under appreciated. I left and now earn a lot more as a consultant and although I'm highly educated and everyone is very impressed when they learn I have a PhD (woop de doo) I am behind my peers in how much I have in savings to buy a house and my pension etc. Wish I hadn't bothered.