Do you think £100,000 a year household income is a lot of money?

[SleepDreamThinkHuge]

I think it is a lot of money even in London where I live. When I hear people say things like "£100,000 is not enough to live on even in London" I think to myself what are they talking about. I have a family of four and we can only dream of earning that amount. The maximum I can see us earning is about £60k if we are lucky. Currently on over £40k combined income with still a relatively high rent and everything does go on bills and other necessities. But sometimes we are lucky and manage to save some money a year. Luckily no debt. I just think to myself £100,000 would be life changing even in London.

What are your thoughts? What do you consider to be average and above average in London and the city you are from?

There’s an element of luck with everything that anyone ever undertakes in life.

Of course.

But the suggestion that ‘you’re lucky’ to the exclusion of all else, which is how it’s often presented on here, is simply untrue. And for those that do work hard and earn well - it’s vexing.

And The starting point in life for most people is not to have a bad genetic hand, be ugly, have bad parents, experience abuse etc… all of these things… and then have to fight your way back up. So it’s disingenuous to suggest that because you don’t have all of these, that you’re lucky. And I coul tell stories about my childhood that would make your hair stand on end, but I just go on with it. It’s learned helplessness to assume only luck can make it better, and it’s simply not true.

The opposite of bad luck isn’t good luck. They aren’t two sides of the same coin.

Wow this thread has been eye opening. DH and I are both currently full time students. Our combined student loans are £12000 for the year. That is topped up by part time work plus a small amount in DLA and child benefit.

We live in the South East, 2 DC and pay childcare (childminder) 2/3 days a week. Our rent is £1200 and our elec is currently £320 and set to rise. On top of that our heating oil isn't cheap. We have dogs and dog related expenses, 2 cars etc

We currently have no debt (student loans excluded) and a small amount of savings, which will likely be wiped out by the next increase in elec prices (£500). We are both giddy at the thought of 2 decent salaries in a few years. I'm looking at PhD funding of around £20,000 as of next September and DH will be earning around £30,000. We have never had that much income. It's game changing for us. Completely and utterly life changing.

I think posters who are justifying their 100k income as "not that much" have completely lost sight of their privileged position. For us, half of that will mean that for their first time in our lives we will have the option to save up to buy. That has never even been an option for us before. It's game changing for our DC who at 11 and 9 have moved house and school far too many times, and for DD who has SEND it means we have a chance of securing her future.

We have both spent so many nights laying awake thinking about what on earth we will do when we are older and the fear of leaving her behind with no security, nothing to fall back on when she is unlikely to be able to work herself and it's been terrifying.
We also have to budget down to our very last 5p. And that is an utterly miserable way to exist.

We are currently facing a cost of living crisis and thousands of families on much less than us are being plunged into homelessness, debt and becoming reliant on food banks. Heat or eat will be even worse this year. 40k is a fortune for families on universal credit, disability benefits or the elderly reliant on state pension, let alone well over double that.

@Quincythequince

The only person who seems mad is you.

Why?
Because I acknowledge that higher earners can work hard and it’s not all down to luck?

@Quincythequince

No.

No one has said anything like that anyway.

You're the only person saying luck has nothing to do with it.

Denying privilege is pointless.

I never once denied privilege. Not once.
And yes luck was brought into it, hence my response.

@Quincythequince

But no one has said its only luck.

Where as you're saying luck has nothing to do with it.

Which is obviously not true.

Some people will work far harder than you ever did their whole lives and only make a few quid a day.

Globally the vast majority of people live in poverty and theyre not lazy or stupid.

They just won't ever have the chances you did.

Even here, in the UK, where everyone seemingly has the same access to education etc, some will never make it out of poverty regardless of how hard they work or try.

Yes, you worked hard to get your well paid, easy role but you also were lucky and had privilege that others didn't.

How much income do you have now?
You are paying £18240 per year just on rent and electric. I would hazzard a guess when you look at what you are getting now and convert it to a gross income your current yearly “salary” is higher than you think.

For example you won’t be cornering your rent with the £20,000 per year salary after you have paid tax, NI, and pension The £30,000 per year salary would have to cover everything else.
At £30,000 per year the student loan repayments will start to be taken.
Add in commute costs and other bits and pieces that need to be paid and there won’t be that much left of the £30,000 per year income after all deductions like pensions

I’m intrigued to understand how a £50k joint income is going to be ‘completely and utterly life changing’ given your current outgoings - you must be receiving close to that income equivalent now to cover all those expenses - plus you’ll be paying your student loan back

I think this should be read by anyone who is struggling and is on what many here think is a lot

www.jrf.org.uk/report/minimum-income-standard-uk-2022

It's saying about 43k for a couple with 2 kids is the reasonable minimum

If I remember correct it does assume that for example a low cost uk holiday is not unreasonable , and the ability to socialise is considered important

I would struggle to find a low cost U.K. holiday.

Even the ones you presume are low cost are eye wateringly expensive in school holidays

I haven't RTFT but IS London really expensive?
What makes it so? Other than property prices, obviously.
I stayed in South Ken when I was last in London, buses are so cheap, taxis comparable, food same, in fact I've paid way more for meals out in the North. I'm not trying to cause trouble, btw! It's a genuine enquiry..

I think also childcare. My friends in London pay loads more than the ones up here.

London for transport, going out (lots of free stuff to do) eating out (lots of very reasonably priced restaurants and hidden gems) Even dinner and theatre tickets through websites (3 courses at a pizza restaurant and a musical at the Savoy theatre. Upgraded to stalls seats which were £90+ when we arrived to collect tickets at the box office. We paid £11.50 each)

You have just got to get your mind round the fact that for the price of a 4 bed detached in other parts of the country you get a 1 bed flat in London. I have friends who have lived in 1 bed flats with 2 children.

Personally I think London to live is cheaper than a lot of other places. I also think it offers so many opportunities for freelance/gig type work that pays well.
Dc loved the freedom that London gave them growing up.

The housing costs if you are renting are prohibitive and to buy a 4 bed detached in central London is a roll over lottery win rather than another rung on the property ladder for most people.
But if you really look around for deals/vouchers/promos or just very good but reasonably priced venues you can be out most nights and be picking up your shopping or a takeaway for a fraction of what you would spend elsewhere.

40k is a fortune for families on universal credit, disability benefits or the elderly reliant on state pension, let alone well over double that

Given you can earn £50,000 and still be on UC I think it is a stretch to say families on UC would think £40k per year is a fortune.

ShadowsShadowsShadows I do think you have to take a look at the reality of a £20 and £30k joint income and what the gross amount of what you receive each month now is.
I think you will be surprised at how much you are on now and how much you will receive and how much you will have to pay out to hold down 2 f/t jobs. Eg, extra childcare, commuting costs, pensions deducted, student loan payments.

i cannot understand how you think it is a fortune when you are paying out so much now.

Also with London there are millions of people who don't actually have high housing costs, either because they bought a long time ago or because they're in social housing. Lots, probably most of them don't pay childcare costs either. So there are actually any number of people who are living there pretty cheaply. It's just unfortunate that if you weren't in by a certain point it's very hard to join either of those groups.

Yet people don’t stop moving here

@PerfectlyPreservedQuagaarWarrior exactly

Yet people don’t stop moving here

Plenty of us were born here.

The other thing with London is that more Londoners don't have family support with kids so they are reliant on paying for childcare or losing an income for one person to SAH.

Obviously there are Londoners with family support and non Londoners without but there's definitely a trend.

Presumably they feel the tradeoffs are worth it.

£ 100K AFTER TAXE AND NI works out around 65k take home and that's before any pension contributions.

So that's quite a lot then

I'm assuming after tax

I'm assuming £5k a year energy bills shudder and £70 a week for food.

If you are a childfree couple, 1 earner, living in a Northern town with cheaper housing (say £500 a month) it's loads. You'd have £4,276 a month for council tax, other bills, downing etc

If you live in the south and have 1 earner and 2 children in full time nursery (2 x 1500 a month) and a 1500 mortgage. Add £5k for energy, £3,640 on food, and that would leave you with a surplus of £276 a month. That's for council tax (which might be not far off that), water, broadband, clothing, and general spending. You'd find it really difficult.

A lot of families, even decent earners, have quite narrow margins when kids are in nursery, because it's only a few years, and they know their disposable income will go up over when nursery costs go. What may have been a tight but manageable for a few years, isn't, when energy prices triple over a year.

Much like the 65k thread. 100k is ok but choices are still limited. Plus the government waltzes off with a substantial amount.