time for England to re-jig their school year?

[KnittingNeedles]

As someone who grew up in Scotland and who has kids at school in Scotland, July is holiday month and always has been. Kids at school until around 20th July always seems insanely late to me.

Statistically, July is the hottest month in the UK and with climate change upon us, temperatures are going to get more extreme. Most Scottish schools finish the last week in June, returning around 15th August. England/Wales keeps their kids in school 3-4 weeks later and then they stay off into September.

Time for a total shake-up of the school year to account for climate change? The school year was originally based around the farming year as far as I know, and as that's not really an issue any more, should they be adopting a more Scottish/N Irish approach to shifting the holidays?

(Actually, I hope they don't because we take advantage of that beginning of July period to travel to England and enjoy the weather/visitor attractions when the kids are all still in school, and enjoy the cheaper prices too).

I'm from Northern Europe - summer holidays were always 1st of June to 1st of September. Yes, 3 months. Now I'm in France and you get early July - 1st of September. School until late July when the weather is the best you can get in the UK and kids could spend time outdoors seems such a waste.

This would be a nightmare. How would teachers ensure all children have covered the curriculum when they’re all missing different parts of the year? It’s hard enough (although obviously no one’s fault) when children are ill or taken out on holiday. When would school staff have their holidays? How would this impact a school’s running costs?

Absolutely this.
Combined with the current shortage of teachers, it's a recipe for disaster.
It's fascinating to see how deep people's lack of understanding of how schools work runs.

Sorry this was I. Reply to children all having different holidays and schools being open all year.

But how would that actually work in the classroom? I’m an SEN teacher and all students have personalised individual curriculums. It works well but class sizes are very small (3-6 students) to account for the fact there is a huge amount of planning and preparation into teaching in that way. You can’t possibly teach individual curriculums to a class of 30, one teacher can only deliver one lesson at a time and whilst you can differentiate within that, especially with good TA support, it’s not realistic to be teaching some kids fractions, some multiplication, some algebra and some division all at the same time depending on what they’ve missed out on across the year.

I guess with much, much smaller class sizes that might be possible, but realistically if you are already having to increase the pay of all school staff (teachers, TAs, cleaners, kitchen staff etc) and have an increase in energy bills to account for the extra 7 weeks of teaching time the likelihood of being able to stretch the budget to double or triple the teacher workforce, plus provide extra classrooms for them to teach in, doesn’t seem very realistic.

Yes please because then I don't need to worry about my 31st august baby being the youngest - she could be one of the oldest 😭

I dont think my post was clear. I was asking the poster whose idea it was how it was the same thing. Not agreeing with her.

I think what she suggests would cost about 10 times more to deliver than our current system. The government are cutting spending not increasing it.

The downside of this is that we have no Whitsun holiday.

Go from beginning of April to summer holidays. Not even an in service day. It always feels long to me and I wish we had a couple of long weekends at least in May or June

I think what she suggests would cost about 10 times more to deliver than our current system. The government are cutting spending not increasing it.

Exactly. The government won’t do this in a million years. With that amount of money, there are loads of better ways to spend it that would actually raise standards.

Yanbu. I've been thinking the same for years. It starts getting Autumnal towards the end of the August holiday. July is the hottest month and can be sweltering

@bendmeoverbackwards ok, so exactly what would your "holistic view" of education be? Do away with exams and set content? Each student to work through a 46 week scheme of work at their own pace with input from whichever teacher is in the room? That would lead to less individual attention not more. We saw during covid massive disengagement from education taught via PowerPoint and even live lessons. It's simply not comparable. What you're suggesting is literally impossible even if there were a bottomless pit of money and no teacher shortages.

Totally agree.

I live up in Northumberland by the border and August is autumnal half the time.

No - on a normal non-Jubilee year in Scotland there are two bank holidays in May. So we get the first MOnday in May as a day off school (for teachers too) and then at the end of May when England/Wales gets a whole week off we have usually Monday and Tuesday and then an in-service day on the Wednesday. So you don't go from mid-April to end June with no break.

Leicestershire have it right. Finish early July. Go back late August.

I'm guessing Leicestershire still have 13 weeks holiday? So no extra expense. Sounds good

The main downside of the Leicestershire system is that the autumn term is very long indeed. Lots of tired and grumpy children (and teachers) by Christmas.

@KnittingNeedles there must be variation by region then because we don't get those.
We get the extra days in the tattie holidays in October I think tied to traditional farming patterns. And six days in February. It always feels a lot of winter holidays with two weeks in October, two at Christmas and then a strange split week and a bit in February

The dates are taken from NI Direct which is the Executive's website (for those who aren't aware).

Even so, a small difference in dates would be expected. Your child still has the same number of days off per year irrespective of start/end dates.

I always preferred our holiday dates over England's and I did go to school in England for a time as well. Most of my schooling was in Northern Ireland, obviously.

Do schools in Ireland and Scotland have to do a set number of days? I think it’s 190 in England.

Kids in Northern Ireland and Scotland do not attend school until mid to late July at all. Kids in England and Wales do.

"The school year was originally based around the farming year as far as I know, and as that's not really an issue any more"

I'm here to confirm that it very much is an issue. Especially if you like to eat food.

Children do still work on farms. They do so all year round. Harvest is one of the most important times of year. Round here, getting the grass cut and stored to feed the animals overwinter is vital. I presume the arable farms upcountry have equally important summer work.

We also have kids who are up at 4 every day all year round for milking before school. Kids up lambing all night from November to April.

These teenagers are vital workers in their family farms.

In the summer season there are also the weekly agricultural shows where especially breeding stock gains value.

Please can people remember that British farming still exists (just) and school age farm workers are vital to the industry.

[and I like the holidays how they are, thanks. But perhaps schools could have improved buildings & infrastructure for extremes of temperature]

Scotland has the same number of set days as England - 190.

Northern Ireland has 200 set days.

No idea about the Republic of Ireland aka Ireland.

Agreed, it would need a huge amount of funding which would be impossible to achieve. But my idea is born out of pure fantasy. There is so much wrong with the British education system I’d love for someone to start again from scratch. Stressed and frazzled teachers and students, too much paperwork for staff, the mental health epidemic in children, students being coached in how to pass exams. The joy and love of learning is being eroded. There must be a better way?

Absolutely-if I was starting from scratch with an unlimited budget, so many good things could be put in place. A model with schooling all year round where staff and children opt to have time out whenever would not be on my list of things to implement though!

@MolkosTeenageAngst I’m not suggesting an individual curriculum, just a more personalised approach to school holidays. Lessons would go on all year with key lessons being repeated at intervals. It doesn’t suit all children to have a long summer break, a lot of learning is lost and disadvantaged families have problems of feeding their children and finding childcare. Those children would benefit from schools being open in the summer.

I can see that criticisms to this idea are based on our current education system and all the constraints of that system. I’m suggesting a completely different way of educating. No it will never happen for financial reasons but it’s just an idea.