time for England to re-jig their school year?

[KnittingNeedles]

As someone who grew up in Scotland and who has kids at school in Scotland, July is holiday month and always has been. Kids at school until around 20th July always seems insanely late to me.

Statistically, July is the hottest month in the UK and with climate change upon us, temperatures are going to get more extreme. Most Scottish schools finish the last week in June, returning around 15th August. England/Wales keeps their kids in school 3-4 weeks later and then they stay off into September.

Time for a total shake-up of the school year to account for climate change? The school year was originally based around the farming year as far as I know, and as that's not really an issue any more, should they be adopting a more Scottish/N Irish approach to shifting the holidays?

(Actually, I hope they don't because we take advantage of that beginning of July period to travel to England and enjoy the weather/visitor attractions when the kids are all still in school, and enjoy the cheaper prices too).

I agree the whole system needs a rethink. It's based on the needs of the population when most were agricultural workers and many children didn't go to school.

The needs of the population have vastly changed and (in the same way every other public service has moved with the times) schooling needs to also progress.

Blah blah school isn't childcare etc but there is no rational reason for schooling to remain in the Victorian era. Otherwise you might as well children can work from age 9 and women can't own property.

I’m not saying it would be easy at all and would require huge amounts of extra funding for more hours and more staff. But what I’m suggesting is a more relaxed approach to education rather than teachers and students running around frazzled trying to cram everything in in a fixed amount of time. Teachers wouldn’t necessarily ‘build on a lesson’, a completely different way of thinking and teaching would be employed. I don’t believe that if a child misses say one lesson they are doomed in that particular subject or topic. Children learn at different rates, some will understand the topic at the first go, for others it won’t sink in till much later.

They also get an allocation of days like in any other job. More teachers would be needed to allow for holiday cover.

Schools open all year round. Each child gets a holiday allowance to be taken when they choose (within reason).

how do you run activities such as sports, orchestras, plays, if you never know who will be available from one week to the next? How do you practice/play a match/put on a performance?

Perhaps something like 8 weeks on, 2 weeks off throughout the year

when would schools carry out maintenance/building work that can't be fitted into two weeks?

@Georgeskitchen Cebter Parcs in that September week was full of people wearing football shirts from my home town 😂

That’s a common misconception.

www.oxford-royale.com/articles/a-brief-history-summer-holiday/

I'm in NW and never known that (I left school over 20 years ago). School holidays have always been like they are now in my experience.

I used to (pre covid) think the 6 weeks felt ridiculously long - but wouldn't like to lose any now for a longer midterm holiday.

What I would like is an extra week on the Xmas hols - 3 instead of two. Not sure where they could take it from 🤷🏼‍♀️

Selfishly I like to take advantage of cheaper holidays the first 3 weeks of July (NI based), but I agree in principle.

Well that's ok until the last weeks of August are very hot (which they often are)

The country now needs a national childcare service and an education system that work together well at primary level. I understand education is used as childcare but we need a system that recognises what is best educationally and what is needed childcare wise. I am genuinley suspicious. It would be so expensive compared to what we have now though.

@LouisRenault The number of children off at any one time might not be more than the number who would be off sick or off for other reasons. The point being, there will always be absences and whilst it can be a pain for sports, music etc it’s not impossible. It’s all about planning, music and sports fixtures can be set well in advance and children and teachers have to book their holidays in advance making sure not too many people are off at once.

They don't have to go back around the same time as Scotland.

England could have July as school holidays like Scotland and Northern Ireland, but go back in the first week of September like in Northern Ireland.

Indulging your Fantasy School League for a moment, how many weeks each year would you grant pupils and staff off?

What if you’d got to the end of the year and some children hadn’t taken enough holiday?

England could have July as school holidays like Scotland and Northern Ireland, but go back in the first week of September like in Northern Ireland.

So they would have all of July and all of August off?

Northern Ireland school holidays for 2022/23:

Schools resume after summer holiday - 1 September 2022

Halloween - 31 October & 1 November 2022

Christmas and New Year - 22 December 2022 to 3 January 2023

Mid-term - 16 & 17 February 2023

St Patrick's Day - 17 March 2023

Easter - 6 to 14 April 2023

May Day - 1 May 2023

Spring Bank Holiday - 29 May 2023

Summer holiday begins - 1 July 2023

School holidays in summer is about two weeks shorter, I think, than when I was in school there in the 1980s and 1990s.

Yes, see the dates I've posted for Northern Ireland above.

Usually when children are off sick it is only for a few days at a time and most kids are only off once or twice over the year. With everyone choosing their own holidays you would regularly have kids off for 2+ weeks at a time, how would their teacher possibly help those children to catch up on the missed learning when there would probably be children going off and returning every day?

Plus who teaches the children in class whilst their teacher is off on a month long holiday?

So you have a class of 30 and a teacher. Each person is allowed statutory annual leave I presume - so 5.6 weeks each?

And this is basically the same as the odd child having a day off for a cold, in terms of continuity for lessons.

I don’t see why it would. Parents who care, maybe but the planning to apply for time off in a specific time just wouldn’t happen by some people. Council run activities and fairs that some of these children may get the benefit of, they wouldn’t be on if everyone was different.
End of term treats that these children enjoy wouldn’t happen.

Could make planning to meet up with friends really hard!

That’s before you consider what a nightmare it would be! Teach fractions on week 3 and someone misses it - how would you keep on top of that?! You can’t keep recapping, there’s no replacement for teaching it fully and practising the new learning as a class with the teacher.

If schools in England and Wales were off 10th July to 24th august that would surely cover the hottest weeks most years?

Most students do not miss 6 weeks of teaching time for coughs and colds, most kids only miss the odd day here and there. If all students are getting almost 6 weeks off school during teaching hours how are you going to catch them up on the work they’ve missed?

And what happens when the teachers are off? Who teaches the class for those 6 weeks?

Also students and teachers currently get 13 weeks off a year, how will we afford to increase teachers pay to make up for the extra 7 weeks a year they are expected to work, plus pay to provide cover teachers for their 6 weeks of holiday for the children who are still in school, plus pay to provide extra teachers to help students who have missed 6 weeks of teaching time (on top of the time missed for the regular coughs, cold and other illnesses) catch up with that missed learning?

It would be a very sad state of affairs if we had a two-tier system where state school children went to school every day apart from the 6 weeks they could apply for as holiday, but their private/public school counterparts had 15+ weeks off a year.

@MrsRhodes I think it varied from town to town, it was based on the old Wakes Weeks (a few people still referred to it as that even then, though I hadn’t realised there was a religious connection), the school summer holidays just continued after the traditional town holidays.

With more teaching time in the year, there wouldn’t be pressure to teach a certain topic in a particular week and if you miss it you’re stuffed. I am suggesting a more holistic approach to education.

@DownNative
Those dates aren't universal in NI. My dc gets a week off starting 31st Oct and a week off starting 13th feb. Only 2 days off end of may then finish on 29th June and back 29th august. 2 weeks at Xmas and Easter.