To walk out of A&E

[Usernamqwerty]

I've been here since 18:00 with what started as suspected appendicitis (from a GP visit this afternoon). Surgeon examined me and said looks like a kidney infection. I had a CT scan nearly 4 hours ago and still waiting on a chair in the busy stuffy waiting area.

There are trolleys lining the corridors here. It's so busy. I asked the nurse when I might hear and she said the doctor will get to me when they can. I might be here all night, I have no idea!

I am shattered, hot and bored and I just want to go home 😭. What happens if I leave? Can I ask them to send my GP the scan report and antibiotics request?

This sounds harrowing. I’m worried that if you left, you might worsen and then have to return. The fact you were able to walk out, is a good sign. Hopefully, your GP will receive a copy of your A&E results and come back to you fairly quickly.

I’m just listening to Radio4. It’s appalling what’s going on with the NHS. People are dying, at home, waiting for ambulances which are queuing for hours outside emergency. How did we get here? … No care staff for community social care jobs (Brexit and poor pay/conditions); bed blocking in the wards; when you’re IN hospital, the staff are run off their feet so, basic cleanliness goes out the window as they’re needing to do “essential” jobs only.

I’m furious and terrified. Not everything can be blamed on Covid; it was almost this bad before Covid. And the people who’ve allowed this to happen? They will never ever sit, like us, in A&E for 18hrs waiting to be seen.

OP, I hope you feel better soon and don’t need to return to hospital. They’re death traps.

If you're well enough to be on Mumsnet and bored and tempted to leave...stop wasting their time and taking up a valuable place in the queue for lifesaving emergency treatment

I’m glad you stayed OP.

The waits are always really busy and I’ve idiotically gone home after hours of waiting thinking I’m not that bad as I just want my bed and ending up having to return a few hours later and having to wait all over again.

Can't doctors diagnose kidney infections with a urine sample?

Can someone tell me what the position is re being accompanied by a responsible person while you wait in A&E ? To fetch water/fold up coat to make pillow /hold hand .

I'm guessing A&E too overcrowded and this would only be possible for the under 16 /18year olds and elderly .Or someone needing support due to other difficulties .

Is at discretion of staff ?

I'm glad you waited. If your GP thought you should go to A&E then it must have been quite serious and that they couldn't deal with it. You could have gone home and got much worse.

I had to go to A&E last year after my GP sent me there. I was told there was a 10 month waiting list for tests. I got a call from the hospital last month (10 months later) and the first thing they said was "do you need these tests as someone else may need them more".

Well, sorry, but yes, you are going to test me whether I feel alright today or not. At A&E I waited 8 hours and when I asked why other people went in before me, with the same condition, clearly younger, I was told that men are more statistically likely to die from that condition so, tough.

So, from now on I won't be bypassing tests I need to make sure I am alive and healthy to bring up my young children, a luxury I didn't have as my mum died when I was young. I pay tax and NI and I am just as entitled to medical help as the next person.

Rant over, and don't feel guilty at going to A&E OP.

Errrm.... I don't know how your car insurance works, but I pay mine and then - and this is the VERY crucial difference - if I have a problem, they are there and fix it! They don't ask me what solution I suggest to my dented bumper, they assess it, arrange repairs, deal with the other party etc.

Unlike the NHS, where seemingly I have to pay the premium only to have a nurse shrug at me and ask me what solution I suggest to being ill.

Also: please speak for yourself - I rarely go near the NHS, never mind wasting appointments or drugs or the rest of the things in your ramble.

Can someone tell me what the position is re being accompanied by a responsible person while you wait in A&E ? To fetch water/fold up coat to make pillow /hold hand .

Unless the person is a child, elderly or vulnerable then other people shouldn’t be there.

It’s the reason why so many people have nowhere to sit and why it’s so hot in there because people come with an extra person.

It would be better to drop off some food and drink or phone charger etc. As there’s no actual reason to be there else.

@applesandoranges221 PALS don't actually handle complaints - if you want to put in a formal complaint there will be a different process. Lots of people 'complain' to PALS, get a conciliatory letter, and CBA to push.

The NHS is currently broken. Unless you have cancer or a serious emergency you're going to wait.

And the candidates for leadership are competing on how much and how quickly they are going to cut taxes.

We're doomed.

(See also: reductions in social care funding, fetishisation of "independence" in old age + focus on quantity not quality of life, short-termism of NHS funding, Brexit, closed-shop NHS management processes...).

I take your point that there isn't the physical space ,this is what I assumed I suppose .

Don't agree with this As there’s no actual reason to be there else though - it's pretty dire waiting in pain ,scared ,uncomfortable and surrounded by others who are variously calling out ,vomiting and bleeding (not exaggerating here) and staff too busy to cope .

Still ,that's the situation we're in .

We went to A&E which was recommended by our useless doctor regarding our baby daughter. She had a fever and was not drinking much fluids.
We waited over 4 hours and then in anger we left, we felt able to leave as thankfully during that time she perked up/fever went down and she took a bottle.

I feel the GPs are failing the public and the easy answer now is for them to say “go to A&E” which are making the problems worse.

There was also a man there who been patched up but had to wait in A&E to make sure his test results got sent to another hospital, why? Again its stupid.

That’s excellent news, thank you for staying healthy, unfortunately we are a country of getting on for 60 million people and a fair number of those do abuse the system one way or another. And sadly many don’t take care of their own health, take diabetes T2 for example, estimates are that 10% of the entire NHS budget is spent on this one, largely preventable, disease and its complications. Like you I pay car insurance, but also try to maintain my car so that the chance of an accident because of brake failure, or other mechanical problems is reduced.

Many years ago I worked in the planning department of a hospital. Those who they could not discharge were called bed blockers. It has gone on for years and never been resolved just got worse. As long as you have the split between social and medical care it will continue. As long as there are no convalescent homes it will continue and very bluntly and against many peoples beliefs as long as we continue to think that the elderly must be saved it will continue. I am a member of dignity in dying and would be quite happy to choose my time to go. My mother too but a fall then dementia kept her in living death for months. Sorry if I have offended or upset readers.

10% on diabetes overall, T1D and T2D. And the way to effectively address that is to screen, and support people at risk of T2D to complete an intensive lifestyle change programme. That's going to require an investment now, while costs of treating complications are still so high.

@iloveeverykindofcat

Trying to get a hospital and GP to talk to each other after you've left is one of the hardest things.

Same with long term condition supposedly "jointly" managed between the GP and a hospital consultant.

My OH has incurable cancer. It's a constant game of "ping pong" between the oncologist and GP surgery with OH being piggy in the middle. They simply won't talk to eachother - it's always messages passed between them via my OH.

Latest fiasco is an oncology blood test showing very low Vit D. Oncologist wouldn't prescribe, so told OH to ask the GP to prescribe. Six sodding months later and he's still not got a prescription! GP insisted on doing their own blood tests as they couldn't access the oncology results. Then, yes, saw Vit D was dangerously low, but wouldn't prescribe because of "possible" effects of taking chemo at the same time, so told OH to go back and ask oncologist about contra-indications. Oncologist told OH, no, it's fine, that's why she said to get them, so back to GP, who then decided he needed to consult with a colleague, and so it goes on. He was already on the higher over the counter Vit D tablet, which he told the oncologist and GP (oncologist had recommended it at start of chemo), but latest "message" from GP via the receptionist is that he and his colleague think the strongest over the counter Vit D is the answer - they're absolutely and utterly hopeless!

@viques

We either all need to pay more directly through taxation ( and hope the system is made more efficient so as not to waste our payments)

We ARE paying more. Brown/Blair increased NIC twice to "save the NHS" but they spunked the money on pay rises and PFI. NIC has been rising over the past 20 years and bringing in huge amounts of extra money. Spending on the NHS trebled under Blair/Brown. Unfortunately, they didn't match that with improving efficiency and reducing waste nor any meaningful reform. The sad truth is that the NHS is a leaky bucket, and the holes in the bucket are getting bigger. Throwing ever increasing amounts of money at it without proper reform is pointless - a bit will indeed get to improve treatment, but the majority will either be wasted or lost to fraud. More layers of management/bureaucracy isn't the answer.

Such nonsense that if you can walk out you’re fine. I have had potentially fatal electrolyte imbalances and heart arrhythmias and I got myself there on a bus and was doing work on my laptop as I sat there whilst I was in a bed in majors department with 2 drips and a continuous ECG monitor.

If your doctor tells you to go to A&E…. then go.

I have never known waiting time's to be so bad as the last few years It doesn't help that anyone with an underlying health condition now has to go through A&E instead of having open access to a ward for assessment. This was to cut the number of admissions and costs. But this is people's lives we are talking about. It doesn't help patients are having to wait much longer to see they're consultant for medication reviews. It should be 6 monthly.

My daughter has siezures she had a drop in the kitchen on Monday without her helmet on and cut her head. I was going to take her to A&E but luckily I had some skin closure's. Managed to patch her up and stop the bleeding. I know they would have just told me to keep an eye on her for signs of concussion. If I can avoid a trip to A&E I will.

A and E would have been at least an 8 hour wait. Thursday-Sunday nights are the worse because there's more drunk's and they get seen straight away.

Even if she's taken by ambulance for uncontrolled siezures there's still a wait. There's some weeks I can be there 2 or 3 time's with her and we have to wait along with everyone else there. But they often don't treat the cause of her uncontrolled siezures so we end up back there again the next day and they admit her.

When the NHS was first designed, GPs did things that A and E now do. A nurse would visit an elderly person who had a fall and put dressings on. GPs would stitch wounds or visit ill children at home out of hours. I am not suggesting we go back to that, but out-of-hour home visits treated a lot of the more minor stuff that needed to be treated but does not need hospital treatment. A lot of the things people here advise going to A and E just in case, you would have rung your GP for.
The Conservatives destroyed the out-of-hours GP service. Jeremy Hunt to be precise. He was warned about the impact and ignored it. In OPs case she could have gone to A and E had scan within two hours, gone home and been treated by an out-of-hours GP. Waiting for antibiotics while you are in your own home is much more pleasant.

Please hang on. If it takes a turn for the worse, you’ll be right back at the beginning again.

@Somethingneedstochange I have known waiting times to be so bad. The mid 1990s when Conservatives had been in power for a long time and had destroyed the NHS then. We then had lots of stories in the press about very long waiting times. But people keep voting for them.

I can only write from my own experience. However, after hearing how 'A and E is busier than ever' now, I reflected on what has happened to me.

I went to my GP because I had chest pains and shortness of breath. Both these symptoms had been present for a long time. The GP, listened to my chest and said there may be a little infection there. That was it.

I asked if that would explain the chest pain, which had been going on for weeks. The GP said if I had a pain in that part of the chest, then I needed to go straight to A and E. I replied that it had been going on for weeks, so the GP referred me for an X ray at the local hospital. I had the X ray a few days later.

The X ray showed hyperinflated lungs and I am now waiting for a spirometry test, and have no idea how long the waiting list may be.

My husband was told to go the A and E because his blood pressure was high. A few more minutes with the GP would have indicated that he was under a lot of stress and that could account for the high blood pressure.

So, from these experiences, I am tempted to think that due to pressure on GP services, patients may not be given the time for a more thorough consultation with their GP (or the GP they see at the surgery), and a trip to A and E is advised for some cases that really do not require it.

I am not saying this is the case for the OP, but it could explain in part why A and E departments are always full beyond capacity.

Her gp sent her there !!!
Hope you feel better soon op

The total cost of the UK NHS increased from approximately £9.2 billion in 1978/79 to £37.4 billion in 1991/92. Adjusting this figure to account for general inflation shows a real increase of 50.4% over this period. I could go on. Currently, the NHS is 40% of all government spending. An additional £12b has been awarded to the health service, above the planned increase in funding. At this rate, the NHS will represent 50% of all spending. If you increase funding then you have to pay for somehow. You either increase taxes, on top of the cost of living crisis, or you take it from elsewhere. Where do you suggest, Universal Credit, Education or Defence ?.

@Pyewhacket I know figures always get trotted out. This does not account for a rise in population. The population in 2022 is predicted to be 10 million people higher than in 1991. We also have an ageing population, and social care crisis that eats up large chunks of the NHS budget.
I have a long-standing condition and I know in practice my treatment is now worse than under Labour, because the criteria for different non drug treatments has been raised. It is rationing. I am sure after about 5 years of Labour the criteria will be lowered again.
We spend less per head on healthcare than equivalent developed countries. We need to pay more. Even the government accepts this. Except they want us to pay more directly as individuals to private companies rather than through tax.