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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To find it hard to work with people like this?

78 replies

Clementinecerise · 13/07/2022 19:10

I mean people at work who over plan EVERYTHING and who has must have a strategy or planning document for every single bloody action down to how many sheets of toilet paper they’re going to use that day in the office.

My current boss is like this. I work for a medium sized national charity. I floated the idea of an evening event for potential donors last summer. It will not have huge costs attached as we have a great venue so just catering. We have the budget.

As soon as I suggested it she asked me to put together an event plan, which I did. Since then I swear to god the plan has been discussed and analysed by everyone down to the bloody cleaner. It’s a simple concept. We have done these types of event before. They tend to be successful. I’ve had to update the plan at least ten times. Every time it’s ‘Can you write a summary of how this fits into our strategic aims?’ (to raise money?) Can you add in a couple of paragraphs about what we are hoping to achieve with this? (Done). And umpteen other questions. Every time I update it she will schedule a meeting at least a month away with yet another person in the organisation to ‘get their view’ which inevitably ends with more changes. A year has now passed, we had a meeting about it today, and she’s scheduled another fucking meeting with another person to discuss.

This is just one example. Everything - even a simple bloody meeting with a potential donor - has to be analysed and planned to within an inch of its life. Internal presentations to update the rest of the team need at least two planning meetings and a planning document and absolutely everything we do has to be scrutinised as to ‘how it aligns with our vision’.

I think it’s important to plan and am always well prepared for everything I do but I find her approach so painful. I have worked with people like this before and they kill productivity and progress IMO.

I also think people hide behind this stuff to avoid doing their actual job. I had a fundraising manager who spent nine months writing a strategy. Nothing else was done in that time. No meetings with donors, no new business development. Just the bloody strategy. When he finally produced it everyone read it, said how great it was and it was filed away. He’s now gone to another organisation where I bet he’s doing the same.

Planning is great and important but bloody hell some people overdo it.

Please hit me with your tales of similar colleagues!

Not interested in snark about how I’m obviously not very good at my job or similar btw, find another post if you’re looking for an argument.

OP posts:
Thegreatestshowoff · 13/07/2022 20:24

Everyone saying come and work in HE - I came on here to say it sounds just like the universities I know! All talk and documents and very little actual action 🤣 As a PP said, this kind of time wasting also puts me off charitable giving 🥲

SarahSissions · 13/07/2022 20:24

The level of accountability in charities is massive. Just look at what is happening with that captain Tom charity at the moment.
mid you run an event and it loses money you need to be able to justify you did your due diligence. Yes it stifles creativity, but is typical in the sector

nomistake · 13/07/2022 20:26

Yup. I have worked in big corporate companies for a lot of my career, and they are key offenders in presentations, 'deep diving', strategy, and endless meetings and conversations on the same topics.

Tbh I spend a lot of my time thinking about what a waste of our lives, that we spend all this time on pointless tasks. Usually just to make someone else rich.

MaximumLeeway · 13/07/2022 20:27

I'm also working for a national charity and recognise this type of behaviour! You have reminded me that today I spent an hour half heartedly copy/pasting information from the document I wrote in a similarly painful and elaborate series of meetings 12 months ago into a new template that has been created by someone else and for some reason now urgently needs filling out.. but the person who wants it is on leave.. So.. not really urgent.. !!!!!

Like you I find it bewildering how much time can go by without anything actually HAPPENING. It's like an addiction and I do have sympathy, I think often people get burned and criticized for mistakes rather than mentoring or constructive feedback, and it leads to a culture of just .. opting out of any real delivery.

Awombaweh · 13/07/2022 20:27

Will you take initiative to the next event too op? I know that would kill my creativity..

thecatsthecats · 13/07/2022 20:36

God, I HEAR you.

I work for a small charity, and have been tasked with running an IT project. Except I don't have the IT skills on my CV, and it wasn't part of the job description (I've only been there a couple of months).

Nevertheless, I should be able to sort it... But they want a project plan with detailed timescales...
Um, I'll do my best? The staff don't even know what I'm putting in. I don't even know all the steps. And the Trustees are the most IT illiterate of the lot. If I make a plan, there's NO WAY they'll understand it, and NO WAY I can guarantee it.

I've actually run my own company before. It was highly successful and we were highly organised, but jot one minute was wasted on ridiculously overdone plans.

chiffchaffchiff · 13/07/2022 20:46

Thegreatestshowoff · 13/07/2022 20:24

Everyone saying come and work in HE - I came on here to say it sounds just like the universities I know! All talk and documents and very little actual action 🤣 As a PP said, this kind of time wasting also puts me off charitable giving 🥲

In other areas of universities, I'd agree. Not events though and definitely not fundraising. Our events team give a little assistance with course-level events (in my non-events role I do 90% of the organising for those) but mostly take charge of bigger university-wide events like graduation, registration for new students, industry seminars (in my particular area it's a week of seminars from CEOs and ground-breaking researchers in our area), alumni fundraising, building openings (not a random office but a multi-million pound lab) and specialist speakers (the most recent was a NASA astronaut- 250 students and alumni who specialised in that area attended). It's high-level stuff being very vaguely directed by directors, Pro-vice chancellors or the Senate. The people with the authority to approve spending rather than defer to several other levels but who have no idea how best to go about arranging events. They approve the plans and spending then sit back in awe of the people who make it happen.

TrippinEdBalls · 13/07/2022 20:50

As someone who works in HE I am, erm, surprised to hear it being recommended for someone who hates bureaucracy, action plans and overanalysis. Where I work if you described the problem they'd look sympathetic and then suggest that you set up a working group with representation from across the institution to really get to the root of the issue...

QueenofDestruction · 13/07/2022 20:54

If you calculate the people cost and time waste in the planning the charity is wasting donors money

TrippinEdBalls · 13/07/2022 20:56

@chiffchaffchiff your university must have got this much more right than mine - every year graduation is committee-d from the moment the last one finishes, but then it still ends up a mad scrabble just before! It is true that it's just about the only thing where the project is done on time, though - 8000 people with tickets is a very hard deadline.

Clementinecerise · 13/07/2022 21:21

Thanks all - alumni relations or HE does sound like a good idea. My boss is going nowhere so I’m not sure how much longer I can stand it!

OP posts:
Staffy1 · 13/07/2022 21:34

She sounds painful. This reminds me of working in a company obsessed with Total Quality Management. The amount of time and money wasted on stupid, pointless courses at fancy hotels and ridiculous meetings about nothing that achieved nothing and bored the pants off everyone except the people who liked doing anything to get out of actual work.

daisyjgrey · 13/07/2022 21:46

I work for a mid level charity and don't deal with events planning, but I do deal with an absolutely mind bending amount of paperwork and layers upon layers of archaic systems, filing and decades out of date approaches when it comes to IT. Add in a manager who micro-manages EVERYTHING (something I've never encountered before) and it's making my brain turn into a boiled egg.

I have however done events planning at HE. I was lower down the ranks for a few things and it was so unbelievably tedious. Planning meeting after planning meeting. Meetings to discuss the planning meetings. Meetings to plan the planning meetings. I finally managed to chair the whole thing a few years later and it was dine and dusted in a tenth of the time it had been the years before, under budget AND we paid conference presenters, which doesn't tend to happen.

I don't really know why people who do this end up in those roles, it's like their main aim in life to complicate and slow things down.

The micro-managing is another post entirely...

WatchoRulo · 13/07/2022 21:51

I sympathise OP, and I'd like to add it's not just work.

I went out for a couple of meals over the weekend. The endless, endless debates about what we were going to order drove me insane (and were making me want to chew my own arm off in hunger and despair).

ArcticSkewer · 13/07/2022 21:53

Clementinecerise · 13/07/2022 21:21

Thanks all - alumni relations or HE does sound like a good idea. My boss is going nowhere so I’m not sure how much longer I can stand it!

Whichever poster told you to go to Unis ... only go to theirs! The rest bring the phrase 'frying pan/fire' to mind

Clementinecerise · 13/07/2022 21:57

I think she has the luxury of time to staff up the wall unfortunately. She’s been there a long time and manages the charity’s relationships with some of our biggest finders. Trusts and foundations and individuals who give every year with minimal effort on her part. The rest of us work hard to get to our targets but she doesn’t need to as she brings in millions every year from a handful of donors.

So she has plenty of time to arse about with strategic planning away days and six month plans and monthly team meeting presentations. So many people like her in the charity world. I think if she was forced to go out and do some real fundraising starting from scratch with identifying potential donors, chasing meetings, cultivating relationships and closing gifts she would expire.

OP posts:
Clementinecerise · 13/07/2022 21:58

Funders not finders!

OP posts:
Dancingwithhyenas · 13/07/2022 22:03

I work for a small charity and we do have the odd person like you describe thankfully most of us ‘work around’ them and avoid bringing things to their attention.
Massive projects get planned,delivered and run again and suddenly they catch wind…. We have to find reasons to make sure it definitely isn’t in their remit!

Clementinecerise · 13/07/2022 22:06

I wish I could work around her but she insists in being involved in everything.

I think I need to find a new job!

OP posts:
DingDongDenny · 13/07/2022 22:08

Just for another perspective, I work for a very small charity (just 4 members of staff) and we get shit done.

Yes we have to have an operational plan etc, but we turn around things really quickly and don't over-think. We are led by the the people we support.

Big charities I think are often like yours, but the smaller grass-roots ones are very different

Twattergy · 13/07/2022 22:11

I'm a successful senior fundraiser.
I have never written or made someone write a strategy document.
Get new bosses or go somewhere where you can be the action-oriented boss you know a good cause needs.
Head for smaller charities or teams where staff can not hide behind documents and are judged on results.

Hunderland · 13/07/2022 22:29

Some people are 'people people'

Some people are 'process people'

'People people' think 'process people' stop creativity, slow things down, spend far too long making decisions.

'Process people' think 'people people' don't pay attention to detail, make stupid mistakes, can't be relied on.

Each think the other is a nightmare 😉

JazzyBBG · 13/07/2022 22:45

Some people want to plan the plan because they are too scared to do the do.

antelopevalley · 13/07/2022 22:47

Do you not have targets of money to raise?
I would love to work in an area where I could waste time doing nice plans that never led to anything. Instead, I have hard targets.

Babyroobs · 13/07/2022 23:04

I work for a charity and I've never known so much time wasted on drama and moaning. Usually the moaning is about workload but if people just stopped gathering in groups of 3 or 4 to moan for half an hour, they could have just done the work they are moaning about in the first place.