To think schools should shut in 30' heat

[dragonflyglaze]

I'm a TA in an Infant School in the South East, we break up next Thurs. This week has been tough, the little ones can't cope in the heat and as much as we try and keep them indoors, hydrated etc some of them are just not coping. Never mind the staff who are doing their best to support the children whilst slowly melting.
Next week we are forecast to hit 30' and there's an extreme weather warning. We have to close if its too cold e.g. heating not working, or too windy. I can't understand why there's no rule for extreme heat.

Most schools in the hottest parts of Europe are off from June to August, when they’re open the smallest children go home early for a long lunch break then would go back late afternoon when it’s cooler. I wouldn’t want my son walking home from school in 35+ heat

Ds school hasnt said anything about no blazers or ties yet. I'm still hoping they decide to do the right thing.
Cant imagine the 20 min walk home for ds in 35 degree heat at 3pm will do him much good either.

Shutting schools is extreme but I do think we need to focus on the children being cool enough next week and being entitled to extra water breaks etc

Children are more vulnerable to the heat than adults are though - they are more susceptible to heatstroke.

And yet children in hotter countries than the UK manage to cope without all succumbing to heatstroke.

YABU. Of course schools should shut down (maybe expect the very youngest nursery children).

however serious investment needs to be made into older school buildings and grounds, including better blinds, ventilation air con and trees and large shady spaces created. Most playgrounds are massive areas of just grass, clever planting around the parameter would provide lots more shade for the children.

Again - as has been said and ignored ad nauseum - because measures are put in place in those countries to make it easier for them to bear the heat. Such as earlier start and finish times, school finishing earlier for the summer, buildings being designed to repel not retain heat. Spain isn’t full of kids sat in blazers and polyester trousers at 3 in the afternoon in July in a room with 30 other children with massive windows that only open 3 inches.

My home is warm, given the weather, but a damn sight colder than outside. I have my curtains closed all day. I don't know a single classroom with full coverage and effective blinds or curtains.

Can't say I'm advocating for them being at home either, but given the weather wanting states substantial changes in working practices and daily routines likely to be required suggests it's an issue for schools if it is an issue for places of work etc.

Exactly

And yet children in hotter countries than the UK manage to cope without all succumbing to heatstroke

Which is why they wear tshirts and shorts to school, have air conditioning, have shades over windows, planting in playgrounds for shade, as has been said hundreds of times already.

Those who say otherwise probably have very little experience being stuck in a room all day with 30+ other people and no air con.

That was school life for some of us every summer.

Which is why they wear tshirts and shorts to school, have air conditioning, have shades over windows, planting in playgrounds for shade, as has been said hundreds of times already.

There is nothing to stop the UK having sensible school uniforms. However, I can assure you that when I went to school (duing which time we had our hottest ever day here) we did not have shades over windows, nor air conditioning - and there certainly weren't enough trees for the whole school to sit under!! It can be said "hundreds of times" - doesn't make it true though.

Again - as has been said and ignored ad nauseum - because measures are put in place in those countries to make it easier for them to bear the heat. Such as earlier start and finish times, school finishing earlier for the summer, buildings being designed to repel not retain heat. Spain isn’t full of kids sat in blazers and polyester trousers at 3 in the afternoon in July in a room with 30 other children with massive windows that only open 3 inches.

Sorry, are there only two inhabited places in the world - the UK and Spain?? I was talking about life where I live - which is not Spain. Schools here are open regular hours, whatever the heat. Also, archaic school uniforms are solely the fault of the Brits. Why not get into the modern world and let kids wear suitable clothing for the weather?

Kids should definitely not have to wear blazers in this weather. But other than that they should just persevere and get on with their schoolwork.

Spain was an example of a hot country which has been given several times on this thread. But if you want to then delete Spain and replace with practically any other country which has hot summers and which have a much earlier school start and finish time. And most of them break up for summer earlier in the year than we do.

Is anyone suggesting this is not Britain’s fault? “Getting with the modern world” by changing uniforms, timetables/working patterns and buildings? That’s literally what I’m suggesting should happen. Why do you give a fuck if you don’t live here?

Which is why they wear tshirts and shorts to school, have air conditioning, have shades over windows, planting in playgrounds for shade, as has been said hundreds of times already.

@Threetulips No, as has been said many times already, this is NOT the case everywhere. Here, there are many schools with no air con, no shades over windows and no planting in playgrounds for shades. 30 kids per hot classroom, and they manage. No odd hours either to escape the heat, 9-3.

One primary school my kids were at got a large outdoor covered area at one point but that was due to the P&C saving up for donkeys years for it as it cost a few hundred thousand. It fitted the whole school for an assembly but that was with the kids all standing shoulder to shoulder. For sitting and eating lunch it could only take less than half with lunchboxes out. As I said before, same with air con, for most public schools it can only happen if P&C pays for both installation and towards running costs which rules out lower socioeconomic schools, and while unfortunate they still manage to stay upright and learn.

Spain was an example of a hot country which has been given several times on this thread. But if you want to then delete Spain and replace with practically any other country which has hot summers and which have a much earlier school start and finish time. And most of them break up for summer earlier in the year than we do.

You might like to read the post I have quoted below - and the other posts from people who live in this part of the world. Schools here also operate in normal hours, and the hottest weather here is always once the school holidays have finished.

I grew up in Australia, where it can hit 40+. School was never cancelled even then and I don’t recall being too badly affected (although water fights were popular at lunchtime). There was no AC.

@HoppingPavlova - I think posters such as you and I are wasting our breath on this thread. Apparently the UK is "special" - their heat is so much worse than any other country, they are the only people on earth who don't have air con, who have unsuitable buildings etc. Just leave them to their whinging.

Some can. I visited a school last week that was fully air conditioned.

That isn’t true, you’re just making up stuff to suit your narrative.

I know this may come as a seismic shock but there is a world beyond Europe that includes regions where temperatures rise above 30C regularly, where children continue to attend school and where schools do not have air conditioning etc.

I’m not a doctor but I’m sure they do have many options for illnesses or other unforeseen circumstances but I’m unclear as to what emergency childcare there’s available if it’s a heatwave for a few days.
My options certainly wouldn’t be available. I am very fortunate to have a super flexible childminder but if we are saying it’s too hot, I shouldn’t use her. Can’t use grandparents because they’re older people and at risk.

Apart from it being very hot and unpleasant, an otherwise fit and healthy 15 year old in a busy secondary school is not more at risk than a 25 year old in a busy working environment. If neither have air con and both are in crowded buildings, then either we close schools and other businesses or we close neither.
I wholeheartedly support mitigations like removing blazers and allowing drinks in class. If parents are concerned about their children, they should be able to keep them at home without fear of an unauthorised absence. However, closing a school due to an abnormal heatwave is overkill. They are there for 6-7 hours out of the day. They can sit in their underwear and eat ice lollies the rest of the time. The world goes on. If children are otherwise vulnerable due to health or other needs, they should take different precautions.

Reading this makes me wonder, again, about so many things that are peculiarly British.

Like dressing children like small accountants to go to school

Like fining parents for taking children out of school

Like imagining that nowhere else in the world has ever experienced high temperatures, or low temperatures, or flooding, or draught.

Like actually saying, and believing, that “the heat in England is hotter than the heat in other countries”. God that really made me laugh.

Why the hell can you not keep your own children home from school if you choose to for a good reason? I mean, I know there is a law but it defies commonsense. Even if one third of students weee absent it would be much more comfortable for the remaining students.
Why can they not wear appropriate clothes for learning and play?

But then this is a nation clinging to its “right” to put consumerism ahead of addressing climate change.

And this is the nation that chose a corrupt sociopath to be prime minister. I mean, what do you expect?

If parents are concerned about their children, they should be able to keep them at home without fear of an unauthorised absence. However, closing a school due to an abnormal heatwave is overkill. They are there for 6-7 hours out of the day

But if, as previous posters have said, no learning needs to take place because it is obviously too hot for that to happen, and instead teachers need to simply occupy them with low-energy tasks that it wouldn't matter if they are missed (as many will be simply off school if there is no fear of unauthorised absence), then in the case of secondary school pupils where there is no childcare argument, what is the point in having them in school during an abnormal heatwave when the school building is totally unsuited to the heat?

There seem to be those who are arguing to keep secondary schools open, in this scenario, for the sake of keeping them open.

(It's also interesting to see so many posters being open about the fact that they only care that primary schools are open for childcare on these days and don't mind if they spend the day having a water fight and eating ice lollies).

@noblegiraffe *(It's also interesting to see so many posters being open about the fact that they only care that primary schools are open for childcare on these days and don't mind if they spend the day having a water fight and eating ice lollies)."

I find these posts incredibly patronising. Right now, there are many families out there wondering how they'll pay the electricity, hearing rumours about layoffs coming, worrying about what will happen to mortgage repayments, the lot. Many more had a horrendous few years struggling with work and home schooling through covid. Many others have jobs like nursing where they know that teams are dangerously understaffed and mass school closures would make it worse.

As a single working mother of primary age DCs, one with SEN, the thought of more home learning makes me feel unwell. If the good people of Mumsnet believe that this makes me a bad parent, then I anticipate their support in voting in a party that would ensure that parents have either affordable, flexible and available childcare, or got benefits to stay home and look after school age children. Until then, please appreciate that the 'schools aren't childcare' argument is bs.

Besides, a day of waterfights and icelollies with friends sounds amazing, why wouldn't we want our kids to have that?