To think schools should shut in 30' heat

[dragonflyglaze]

I'm a TA in an Infant School in the South East, we break up next Thurs. This week has been tough, the little ones can't cope in the heat and as much as we try and keep them indoors, hydrated etc some of them are just not coping. Never mind the staff who are doing their best to support the children whilst slowly melting.
Next week we are forecast to hit 30' and there's an extreme weather warning. We have to close if its too cold e.g. heating not working, or too windy. I can't understand why there's no rule for extreme heat.

Yabu. I assume you're happy not to be paid if you want the time off for 'heat'. Jesus I've heard it all now.

What do you think these kids will do at home? Turn on the non-existent air con?

Have you ever been abroad or come back to the uk from abroad when it’s a similar heat here? The heat here feels different and not in a good way.
You hear people from hot climates taking the piss out of us brits for not coping in this heat, until they visit here and experience it and eat their words.

I've certainly been abroad - a lot, and sorry but I'm not buying the line that keeps being trotted out that somehow the British heat is special - it just isn't.

As far as humidity goes one look at the stats will show that many parts of western Europe suffer very very similar levels of humidity to those found UK...(and that value varies day to day, place to place anyway depending on the weather systems in play)

I'm not denying for one moment British cities such as London can be horrid and humid in hot weather but the same applies to many major cities such as Paris or New York..

It's the mitigating strategies, or lack of them, that seem to be the problem...the classic being the demand for blazers, ties etc even when the temperature is heading for scorchio, or is already there........

We're on week 4 of the school holidays. Maybe you should consider having longer summer holidays too? Problem solved.

Even someone from the met office has been quoted to say that the heat here IS different because of the humidity.

read my other comments.

The heatwave in Japan reached over 41 degrees and crucially didn't drop below 38 degrees for over a week, there was also high humidity to deal with, the same as during the Chicago heatwave in 1995 which killed many.

That's quite different from it reaching 32/33 during the day and dropping down to an outdoor temperature of low 20s overnight, with no extreme humidity.

but we have now set the precedent for lock down so I am not surprised it's now the first call after something a little unusual

Yes because snow days weren’t a thing until we locked down for covid either schools also closed due to storms.

Outside of the weather, I can think of times my school has closed because of a broken boiler, a fire and a burst water pipe.

School closures were a thing before covid.

We aren't facing anywhere near the wet bulb temperatures of Japan in even a normal year let alone 2018.

Just reading up about the Japan 2018 heat

Lasted almost 2 months

We are predicted 2 days

Energy companies offered money off electric bills for the elderly to take into account increased air con usage. Nice idea.

28 degrees here outside. 33 degrees in my classroom (south-facing). Students all red-faced and really not in the mood for anything and continual complaints from students that they feel faint / have awful headaches etc.....
Not looking forward to next week!

I Don't disagree but I'm working 12.5 hour shifts as a nurse on an elderly dementia ward with no proper air con, just old plug in machines that push hot air around. When my DS is older at school I simply wouldn't be able to just not go to work so he could have a day off.

YANBU

Those who say otherwise probably have very little experience being stuck in a room all day with 30+ other people and no air con.

As a teacher I would happily still go in and use it as a training day and swap it with a future training day so I’m not getting paid for having a day off or anything.

In all the schools I’ve spoken to behaviour is absolutely awful at the minute and the students are not paying attention simply because it’s too hot and honestly I don’t blame them.

I wasn't saying that we are anywhere near those levels but the point is that the elderly AND CHILDREN are the most vulnerable to heat and as happened in Japan we are unprepared for the temperatures predicted. No I do not think we will have the same catastrophic amount of deaths but deaths will likely happen as they do every heatwave. Some schools are not making adjustments, they are carrying on as usual with normal playtime and school hours and school uniform, they are not giving leeway on the water only rule which means some children wont be drinking anywhere near enough, they will be running around because they are children, not recognising the first symptoms of heatstroke and so carrying on till they are really ill. We all know children compensate they keep going far longer than an adult would be able too.

Other countries do not simply carry on, the teachers are more aware of the dangers, children are more aware of the risks, activities in schools are adapted to suit the climate and learning how to stay safe in the heat is a big part of their lives. Skin protection is also extremley important in those countries. It isn't like that in England. Teachers can't help put suncream on (even if it was feasible for 2 adults to put suncream on 30 children) but they don't even remind the children in many cases. Infact many people in England see a heatwave as an excuse to have a BBQ, get burnt to a crisp and think nothing off it and drink copious amounts of alcohol. Let's be honest, the British aren't the smartest of people when it comes to dealing with hot weather so our children generally aren't that aware either. My eldest is supposed to have sports day on Monday. She will not be going.

Sorry?? Quote from the met office:

The Amber warning, which has been issued for Sunday (17 July) and Monday (18 July), highlights likely adverse health effects for the public, not just limited to those most vulnerable to extreme heat.

Its not 35°c every day. Children are already getting sick at the current temperature. When the schools aren't properly equipt to deal with the already dangerous kind of heat then they should close.

No, the warning specifically says that health effects are likely to be experienced population-wide and not just the vulnerable. See screenshot.

Also south east and meant to be 33/34 mon and Tue then cool down a bit wed

we have a reception school trip outside tue ….. wondering if they will cancel the trip

I think schools absolutely do serve a function beyond education. Schools are a safe space for many children and can be the only place they get a proper meal. Numerous parents, particularly single working parents, can often only participate in the economy because of school so the childcare/child welfare/economic argument is valid. The government knows this and is involved in planning this.

If we are going to have increasing numbers of extreme hot weather days then the government needs to equip schools accordingly (could be more blinds/shades not necessarily aircon). If schools just get into a habit of closing, that won’t happen.

The extreme hot weather days are currently few and far between and I think no more than we had in my school days in the 80s and 90s when, frankly, no one gave a shit. All of the sensible suggestions of no blazers/no uniform, fewer expectations in class, more time in comfortable areas could and should be adopted as part of school hot weather planning. They basically did that stuff back in my school days as a matter of common sense.

Parents who want to keep their children home can do so. Those who want/need to send them to school should do so. Parents do have an element of choice and it’s good to remember that not all homes are more suitable for children in hot weather than schools.

Also, lots of comments about Germany on this thread; I lived in Germany (former West Germany) for a while and everything said is true… BUT… it is one of the least helpful work environments for working mums that I have ever experienced and I have lived in 7 countries. The expectation/way systems work assume a parent (in practice the mother) is at home/always available. Former East Germany is different I understand.

(former West Germany) is 32 years ago + there are different Länder with different rules.

But I have yet to see a school with windows that do not open, and shorts + T-Shirts or dresses are OK for school wear - even for teachers.

Well I didn't expect this thread to have quite such a massive response.
To answer just a few questions.

Yes I'm aware it would cause childcare issues and I'm not saying it's an ideal answer, we need to look into other ways to make life bearable in schools if this is set to be a trend for the future some ideas would include installing decent aircon in schools, changing the uniform, changing the curriculum demands, possibly changing the term dates, and all the other sensible suggestions this thread has thrown up.

No I don't want to be paid if the school closes, I would happily forfeit a few days pay to make life more bearable for the children. I would like to point out that TAs are not in it for the money, we're on around £10 an hour and we do it because funnily enough we care about children and want to help improve their lives through education. This is not about me wanting to skive, I go above and beyond in my job.

Those of you saying that it's no different at home than at school, I can only presume you have no experience of working in a school. 30+ hot bodies trying to work and play together in extreme heat is very very different to a family at home. At home you can reduce activity levels, have a cold shower or bath, have an ice pop, sit in your pants, flop about and do very little. You don't need a garden to do those things. It's the relentless nature of school life that makes it so very difficult. Children are fractious and grumpy when they are hot. Come and volunteer in a school on a hot day and you'll soon see how difficult it is.

I do think this issue needs to be addressed asap so that we can all carry on sending our children to school in a safe environment where they can continue to grow and learn without feeling ill.

@Prokupatuscrakedatus I understand that different Länder have different rules but generally the former W German Länder are much less helpful to working parents than the former E German Länder. I lived in Hesse for context.

Not sure if the second part of your comment was aimed at me, but in my schools (both in UK) both children and teachers wore short sleeves and light cotton in hot weather which does not have to equate to teachers in shorts (not that I would have a problem with that).

I teach "on the continent" in a similar climate to the UK. Schools in my country do adjust schedules when it's too hot. We have a "tropical timetable" with extreme heat of shorter days/lessons. However, schools still have to meet their legal minimum teaching hour obligations over the whole year, and if parents cannot collect early then schools must still provide care for students.

Neither of my kids primary schools have ever enacted this (but then schools here finished 14.15 most days or 12.00 on 1/2 days). They have enacted early pick up for extreme weather.

We have done this many times in my secondary school over the last 15 years (which has climate control!).

Oh do get a grip OP. You sound utterly ridiculous. Of course everyone’s had experience in a hot school. And lots of children live in flats which will be boiling. , it is far better for children to be in school. Stop whining. You seem completely unaware that not everyone can just take time off work at the drop of a hat.

It needs to be addressed for everyone then, post people, police, doctors, nurses etc etc. you've not suggested how the child care is sorted out for yet more days not at school.

I'm sure a nurse working in full PPE, in a ward without aircon is equally as hot.

I spent 3 years working at a school in a township in South Africa (I think this is relevant to your point about coming to volunteer) which had no cooling facilities.

Everything you say about the horribleness of working in a school in hot weather is absolutely true, but what you say about the equivalent day at home is not. In the UK, we assume it’s ok at home, safer at home, better at home… but it often isn’t.

Schools closing because of non optimal or uncomfortable conditions cause so many problems. Some economic and some tragic. I really don’t believe that the equivalent damage happens during an uncomfortably hot school day. Parents have the choice to keep their children at home; vulnerable children don’t have the option to find a safe space.

This has massively irritated me. I will repeat one last time, I am thinking about keeping children safe, happy and comfortable. I am not wanting to strike. I am not wanting a few days at home. I am not complaining about my own discomfort. I work in education m I care about children. Bore off with your assumptions.

At home you can reduce activity levels, have a cold shower or bath, have an ice pop, sit in your pants, flop about and do very little.

You can do some of those things in school as well as similar things to achieve the same effect. There really isn't any need for the school day to be 'relentless' right now.